Kitchen rudder

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by chandler

Good article on the kitchen rudder in the current issue of "woodeboat"

Just to clarify, the issue of the mag is the July/Aug '05 issue. And it is WoodenBoat not woode' boat.

One might try contacting the author Barry Miller of Port Colborne, Canada. "He continues to research the Kitchen rudder, and continues to improve his operating skills as a result of much practice."

[chandler]

people in this forum get more anal by the minute

[steamboatmodel]

Hi All,
I have been told that the Kitchen Rudder was used by both the British and Canadian Navy ? But I can not find any pictures or plans that show this. I would like to build a RC model Steam picket type boat with a single cylinder steam engine and use the Kichen Rudder for control.
Regards,
Gerald

[cyclops]

I did a search on the web and found 1 good set of views of the Kitchen Rudder earlier in this thread.. It was also used on the Mississippi for many years in barge tugs. Cost of parts to replace killed it off. Search-------kitchen rudder---------. Post back if you can not find it.

[artemis]

Originally Posted by steamboatmodel

... I would like to build a RC model Steam picket type boat with a single cylinder steam engine and use the Kichen Rudder for control.
Regards,
Gerald

The Kitchen Rudder has been used by RC boat modelers for years as an good method to change direction and control speed. Any decent RC boat group should have at least one around - or someone who knows something about them.

[steamboatmodel]

Hi All,
I have checked back through the Thread and found the following references to Naval Vessals with Kitchen Rudders

08-12-2002, 06:59 AM Post #15

Kitchener rudder

The Kitchener rudder was used on many Royal Navy and Commonwealth Navy small craft such as the 32 foot motor cutters up to about 1975. Its advantage was good steering in sheltered waters, no need for the gearbox to reverse and excellent control when comming alongside. The coxswains got very good at controling the combined tiller and acme thread engaged wheel that controlled the "bucket " You will find it described in older editions of the RN Manual of Seamanship. I do not know if the US Navy used it. Boden B.P.

11-01-2002, 11:18 AM Post #20
Steve Gray
Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Weymouth, UK
Posts: 22

I once drove an ex-RN harbour launch that had a Kitchen rudder, much to the amusement of the owner who'd lovingly restored it. There are interesting tips in the Admiralty Manual of Seamanship (1981 Vol II p309+), which extolls the virtues of the Kitchen: "...the most manoevrable of all single-screw boats, and more manoevrable than many twin-screw boats...", "...rudder effect ... is far greater at all speeds", "speed of boat... can be controlled with tiller wheel alone...". I haven't seen one of these for ages, and remember that they were notorious for getting fouled easily (but surely no more so than a Kurt, which are still in wide use). I wouldn't mind the arrangement on my current long-keeler, though!

04-04-2003, 03:14 PM Post #25
Posts: n/a
Kitchen Rudder
In the 1950's I was member of the ships boats crew on a British cruiser. Our pinnance was eqiupped with what we rightly or wrongly called "Kitchener gear". It was great for manouverability, however, going from full ahead to full astern with a full load (40 or so crewmen) as you approached the ships ladder took some judging and a great deal of work on the part of the coxswain who had to spin a small wheel which controlled the two "arks" of the rudder. It took a well trained crew to bring the pinnance alongside the ships ladder, fighting North Sea currents and winds while under the eagle eye of the Office of the Watch who wanted to ensure that the ladder survived without a scratch.
Jim Hendrickson

Post #27 01-19-2004, 07:46 AM
Unregistered Posts: n/a

my kitchener gear
hi just writing to let you know i have kitchener gear on my 1940 ex admrilty pinnace she is a 35footer and in my oppinion the system is excellent from tjgee58@hotmail.com

03-22-2004, 01:42 PM Post #28
KitchenRudderNu
Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 1

Are you still interested in the Kitchen Rudder ?

Hi there,
Google found mention of an old entry you made enquiring about Kitchen's Rudder. I have just restored my old Kitchen Rudder which I removed from my 32' naval cutter, originally from the Ark Royal, a Royal Navy aircraft carrier.
I have the rudder assembly mounted on a stand in my office as a sort of conversation piece!
If you want some photos of it, I would be glad to email them to you.

06-17-2005, 05:11 PM Post #38
safewalrus
Member Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Cornwall, England
Posts: 182

Lots of interesting stuff on "Kitchener rudders". But from experience (Yep I was once of those cox'ns that used the damn thing - Royal Navy 196?) Whilst highly manouverable, you could turn in your own length at a reasonable speed, stop instantly too! the biggest problem was the fact that with any sort of power on (and you needed a fair bit to move!) it was HARD WORK! plus of course whilst cranking the wheel that shifted the gearing, you wern't interested in much else! But if you want manouverability with only one screw and nothing else this was the gear! Probably died out due to twin screws and fiddly bits. There was also a fair bit of metal hanging down at the back end which tended to hamper use in shallow water - but as they were mainly used on boats being used as tenders for real warships (big uns) this didn't count for much - but yer yotty wouldn't like the hard work (can't blame him)
the 'Walrus

Other than the mention of the one on the Ark Royal there is no mention of which ship had the boats with Kitchen Rudders. I have searched and can not find any pictures or plans which show this gear, the plans I found for the Ark Royal showed just regular steering gear. I have seen one model Steamboat with a Kitchen Rudder, and read a couple of articles in magazines about them, but none of them Naval Vessals. The actual working and actuation of the gear I have figuared out (I came across the artemis site early on in my search) and I have some lovely Pinnance plans (which show normal steering gear), I would like to use the two togeather and have a model that I can say is acurate. Can any one provide my with pictures/plans?
Regards,
Gerald
PS How is the Artemis coming? I haven't seen any photos of construction on the site.

[cyclops]

Try ---July 3 2002 Kitchen Rudder------Thread=418----------Has full pictures of the U.S. Patent.

[steamboatmodel]

It's not the Rudder mechanisms I am having problems with, its finding a boat to model that had the gear on and photos showing it so I can document it when I display the model.
Regards,
Gerald

[cyclops]

A modern Mississippi River tug boat company used it up till about 5 or 10 years ago. It was on a web site. I will try to find it again.

[cyclops]

Can not find the site. ------search.lycos.com---------Kitchen Rudder. Lots of stuff.

[artemis]

Originally Posted by steamboatmodel

It's not the Rudder mechanisms I am having problems with, its finding a boat to model that had the gear on and photos showing it so I can document it when I display the model.
Regards,
Gerald

There are at least two postings on this page where people speak about having experience with... In both cases, if you contact the person you should get photos, etc. Particularly when, in both instances, the type of craft it was attached to is called out.

[steamboatmodel]

Hi, Do you have any photos of the Kitchener Rudder in use on any of these craft, I am looking for documentation on them so I can build a RC working model.

The Kitchener rudder was used on many Royal Navy and Commonwealth Navy small craft such as the 32 foot motor cutters up to about 1975. Its advantage was good steering in sheltered waters, no need for the gearbox to reverse and excellent control when comming alongside. The coxswains got very good at controling the combined tiller and acme thread engaged wheel that controlled the "bucket " You will find it described in older editions of the RN Manual of Seamanship. I do not know if the US Navy used it. Boden B.P.

Thank you.
Gerald

[steamboatmodel]

Hi Steve,
Do you have any photos of the launch that show the Kitchen Rudder?

Originally Posted by Steve Gray

I once drove an ex-RN harbour launch that had a Kitchen rudder, much to the amusement of the owner who'd lovingly restored it. There are interesting tips in the Admiralty Manual of Seamanship (1981 Vol II p309+), which extolls the virtues of the Kitchen: "...the most manoevrable of all single-screw boats, and more manoevrable than many twin-screw boats...", "...rudder effect ... is far greater at all speeds", "speed of boat... can be controlled with tiller wheel alone...". I haven't seen one of these for ages, and remember that they were notorious for getting fouled easily (but surely no more so than a Kurt, which are still in wide use). I wouldn't mind the arrangement on my current long-keeler, though!

Regards,
Gerald

[steamboatmodel]

Hi Jim,
Do you have any photos of the Pinnance that shows the gear?

In the 1950's I was member of the ships boats crew on a British cruiser. Our pinnance was eqiupped with what we rightly or wrongly called "Kitchener gear". It was great for manouverability, however, going from full ahead to full astern with a full load (40 or so crewmen) as you approached the ships ladder took some judging and a great deal of work on the part of the coxswain who had to spin a small wheel which controlled the two "arks" of the rudder. It took a well trained crew to bring the pinnance alongside the ships ladder, fighting North Sea currents and winds while under the eagle eye of the Office of the Watch who wanted to ensure that the ladder survived without a scratch.
Jim Hendrickson

Regards,
Gerald

[steamboatmodel]

Hi,
Do you have any Photos of the Kitchen Rudder mounted on the Cutter, any plans I have found show normal steering gear. I am looking for a boat to model that used the Kitchen Rudder and am having a hard time finding documentation of the gear being used by the Royal Navy.

Originally Posted by KitchenRudderNu

Hi there,
Google found mention of an old entry you made enquiring about Kitchen's Rudder. I have just restored my old Kitchen Rudder which I removed from my 32' naval cutter, originally from the Ark Royal, a Royal Navy aircraft carrier.
I have the rudder assembly mounted on a stand in my office as a sort of conversation piece!
If you want some photos of it, I would be glad to email them to you.

Regards,
Gerald