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  #31  
Old 09-08-2004, 07:14 AM
Dutch Peter Dutch Peter is offline
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Gary,

Can you give an update regarding the Kitchen Rudder, have you build it by now or did it end with your last post in 2002.

Regards
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  #32  
Old 09-08-2004, 09:50 AM
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duluthboats duluthboats is offline
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Peter

I built some small working models of this idea to prove it would work. The boat I want to install it on is down the list to #2 or #3 so it will have to wait for a while. This was my first post on the forum thank you for bringing it back to the surface. The Kitchen Rudder is a great idea but works best at displacement speeds. There is not much of a market for a motor boat that goes slow, at least that’s the way it is in the US.



Gary
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  #33  
Old 09-08-2004, 10:05 AM
Dutch Peter Dutch Peter is offline
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you're welcome, the thread was a nice history lesson and I was wondering if someone was still using this, that's why I brought it up.

This might be a great system on a "sloep" (open lifeboat type vessel)! Designed for rowing/sailing speed.
BTW, nice drawing. Is that Rhino?
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Last edited by Dutch Peter : 09-08-2004 at 10:11 AM. Reason: adding comments
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  #34  
Old 09-08-2004, 02:17 PM
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duluthboats duluthboats is offline
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Yes, I modeled the rudder in Rhino, it’s a great way to figure things out before you build. I haven’t found any reference to the Kitchen rudder ever being used as a tiller set up. But to me it is the ultimate in simplicity with complete control of all boat movement in one hand.

I’m not familiar with the boat you mention, but any displacement boat with an inboard would be a good fit for a rudder like this. I don’t know why they are not in common use.

Gary
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  #35  
Old 09-08-2004, 03:31 PM
Dutch Peter Dutch Peter is offline
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This is essentially what they mean with a "sloep" in Holland. Can be found ranging from 4 to 13 mtrs, with 5 hp or 300 hp (I hate these models with a lot of power, because the design isn't for speed!).
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Kitchen rudder-sloep.jpg  
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  #36  
Old 09-09-2004, 05:13 AM
Karsten Karsten is offline
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Hi there,
your Kitchen rudder is also used as a thrust reverser on jet engines! I think a JT3D engine used on the Boeing 707 has a thing like that.

Cheers,
Karsten
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  #37  
Old 10-22-2004, 10:03 PM
artemis artemis is offline
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Kitchen Rudder

To simply keep this alive - or provide more info for others.

Mine is the .gif at the /~artemis/... URL. I intend to use it on a 20'+ steamboat I'm working on. Got the idea from Weston Farmer's book and after much hunting found a person in Texas who was fitting one to his 26' steel hulled steamboat. He sent me a lot of info he'd acquired (He's since launched the boat and the Kitchen rudder works flawlessly). His was made of steel, but I've recently found photos, etc. of one made for a 9" dia prop on a Bolger "Sneakeasy" design. The shroud is made from carbon fiber formed around a bucket and held to shape by a piece of 1" x 1/8" strap iron. More info on it at http://www.4dw.net/cosailor/ - go to the area about "Sneakeasy".

Ron
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  #38  
Old 06-17-2005, 05:11 PM
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safewalrus safewalrus is offline
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Lots of interesting stuff on "Kitchener rudders". But from experience (Yep I was once of those cox'ns that used the damn thing - Royal Navy 196?) Whilst highly manouverable, you could turn in your own length at a reasonable speed, stop instantly too! the biggest problem was the fact that with any sort of power on (and you needed a fair bit to move!) it was HARD WORK! plus of course whilst cranking the wheel that shifted the gearing, you wern't interested in much else! But if you want manouverability with only one screw and nothing else this was the gear! Probably died out due to twin screws and fiddly bits. There was also a fair bit of metal hanging down at the back end which tended to hamper use in shallow water - but as they were mainly used on boats being used as tenders for real warships (big uns) this didn't count for much - but yer yotty wouldn't like the hard work (can't blame him)

the 'Walrus

Last edited by safewalrus : 06-17-2005 at 05:12 PM. Reason: spelling!
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  #39  
Old 06-18-2005, 06:38 AM
FAST FRED FAST FRED is online now
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Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big dock & room for O'nite stop .
On our 50ft Navy Utility there is a "backing rudder" which consists of a bronze hollow tapered cone about 6in diameter ,a foot in front of the prop.

There is a "conventional " motorboat rudder behind the prop.

The backing rudder works by accelerating prop water in the cone ( in reverse) that is used to offset the stern kick of the prop.

In other words one can back , in controll, in a straight line at very low speeds.

Manuverability can come in many forms.

FAST FRED
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  #40  
Old 06-18-2005, 11:34 AM
cyclops cyclops is offline
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My book "TUGS TODAY " has about every type of propulsion system tried in them. Nowhere is a "kitchen" system mentioned. There had to be some short coming in it's time and today for it to never be in tug boat use.
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  #41  
Old 06-19-2005, 01:12 AM
artemis artemis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclops
My book "TUGS TODAY " has about every type of propulsion system tried in them. Nowhere is a "kitchen" system mentioned. There had to be some short coming in it's time and today for it to never be in tug boat use.
Give me a break! There are any number of books that do not mention significant inventions in various fields. Weston Farmer's take on it was two-fold: 1. It was not properly marketed in the USA (we're talking 1910 to mid 1920s); 2. Reliable reversing systems for infernal combustion engines in boats were becoming available during this period. I'll trust Westy's analysis.
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  #42  
Old 06-19-2005, 06:48 AM
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safewalrus safewalrus is offline
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" Not used for Tug Boats" so it doesn't exist? One of the things 'Kitchen' fitted boats were used for was towing - anything that needed towing, these vessels were heavy duty workboats, and did just that WORK!

Typical narrow mindedness of one of our ex-colony's thats one of the reasons we let you go! Actually we gave up America for Gibraltar (more use at the time!), check your history! Sorry about that but the more I read on this Forum the more I get frustrated!
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  #43  
Old 06-19-2005, 10:02 AM
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duluthboats duluthboats is offline
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I would have to agree that at the time this rudder was in use its advantages were diminished by the mechanics. I also believe that with today’s hydraulics and electronics these mechanics can be greatly improved. Or for small boats simplify the works with something like the one I have illustrated. The Kitchen Rudder is not a cure-all but it may improve the performance of some boats.

Walrus,
Don’t let this place frustrate you, the diversity of opinion is what makes it great.
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  #44  
Old 06-19-2005, 10:17 AM
cyclops cyclops is offline
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Artemis. I can accept you reasoning very easily. Thanks.
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  #45  
Old 06-24-2005, 02:49 PM
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Just had a thought, if it is possible to get a small unit for say a small open launch of 20 feet max. that could be a fun boat to chuck about the place - wouldn't be too much work either!
the awld bug*** has finally lost it! senile in his old age!

but seriously, must have a scout round Pompey Dockyard next weekend (International Festival of the Sea and all that)! This from the guy who couldn't wait to leave her Majesty's employment -old matelot's never die they just go on, and on, and on, and....
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