Kitchen rudder

[Stephen Ditmore]

Hi Boden B.P. Do you know who made the steering gear for the Royal Navy? Also, do you know what configuration they've gone to for launches since abandoning the Kitchener?

Here's an interesting rudder-related site:
http://www.ruddersteering.com/rudders.html

Note also: I'm interested in spec'ing a Vari-Pitch prop:
http://www.varipitchmarine.com/
as soon as they have a version ready for inboards.

[Mike D]

Too many cooks in the kitchen spoil the broth as they say but I wanted to stir things up a bit, too

The attached file is a .GIF image of a scan of a page in vol 2 of Basic Ship Theory by Rawson and Tupper.

The following is an extract from Basic Naval Architecture by Barnaby;

The Kitchen rudder consists of two curved blades carried on pivots above and below the propeller. Normally, the blades lie on either side of the propeller, but they can be angled to the race to give steering effect, or they can be closed together behind the propeller to form a sort of hemispherical cup that enables astern way to be obtained without the necessity of reversing the propeller. This may sound like "hoisting yourself up by your shoe- strings", but there is an actual astern thrust of the order of one third of the normal amount. This suffices for ordinary manoeuvring as the closed blades provide an efficient brake. Some users prefer to retain a reverse gear for an emergency such as running aground. The main use of the rudder is for survey launches as it enables them to hover over a particular spot without having to slow the engine to stalling point.

Their comments, I thought, might add a little. Rawson & Tupper were in the Royal Corps of Naval Constructors when the books were written, first published in 1968 & mine are edition 2 from 1976. The RCNC is the British Admiralty design/building/repair group (more or less). Barnaby was a consulting nav arch (and a damn good one), his book was first published in 1949 and I have edition 3 from 1969.

Barnaby's book is much more down to earth and practical than most books on naval architecture - he is very terse so the book is full of meat. Naturally, it is out-of-date when discussing Class Rules and the like, nothing about computers so it isn't a math text book like all the modern books and it contains a mountain of good stuff. Highly recommended.
Michael

[duluthboats]

Michael,
Welcome to the forum. Thanks for adding to my collection of Kitchen rudder information. I started this thread, and it was my first post here. I still have a fascination for this rudder. But I have been to busy to work on it much.

I noticed you have added to a few other threads, again thanks. Maybe you would like to take a peek at O-1 and give your $.02.


Gary

[Mike D]

Gary

I'll have at look at O-1 when I get through a few points here.

Don't count on too much from me on the overall design of it because my last design was for something 160 m long, say 525 feet. Now that's just a tad too big for a runabout

My entire working life has been ships; mainly design but always in shipbuilding. Many of the theoretical aspects of floating vessels are the same whether they be VLCC, Cruise-ships, Ferries, Tugs, Barges, Row-boats or Runabouts. The application is different, standards and so on are different so I'll have no hesitation about some things but I'll shy away from many others.

But I'm looking forward to joining the fray and thanks for the welcoming and your invitation
Michael.

[Steve Gray]

I once drove an ex-RN harbour launch that had a Kitchen rudder, much to the amusement of the owner who'd lovingly restored it. There are interesting tips in the Admiralty Manual of Seamanship (1981 Vol II p309+), which extolls the virtues of the Kitchen: "...the most manoevrable of all single-screw boats, and more manoevrable than many twin-screw boats...", "...rudder effect ... is far greater at all speeds", "speed of boat... can be controlled with tiller wheel alone...". I haven't seen one of these for ages, and remember that they were notorious for getting fouled easily (but surely no more so than a Kurt, which are still in wide use). I wouldn't mind the arrangement on my current long-keeler, though!

[Clif1f]

I, too am fascinated by this rudder. I would appreciate hearing any news of full-size success with this device.

I'm not sure exactly what a patent means in this context. The 1990 patent does not seem any different in theory from the 1916 idea.

If I manage to fabricate one, could there possibly be a request for royalties? There is not much in the way of construction details.

Does anyone out there understand how the hydraulic arm is activated? Until I can figure out how to do two things at once (not my strong suit), I can't figure out how I could drive a boat and operate the clam shells. Any ideas, especially from a helm position.

Thanks for the help.

[duluthboats]

Hi Clif

The controls would be similar to those on most boats today. The clamshell is controlled by one lever. (forward/reverse) Steering is with a wheel. From the helm you wouldn’t notice any difference, in appearance anyway.

Welcome aboard, and it’s nice to see another Farmer fan in my neck of the woods.

Gary

[Mike D]

Gary

I saw a modern example of a Kitchen rudder yesterday. My wife and I were flying home after spending New Year's at our son's. The plane landed and I was idly watching the wing flaps as we raced along the runway then the "thingammajig" employed and the thrust reverser slowed us down.

You are an aircraft mechanic, I believe, so you might be able to find one from a plane flown by a little old lady only in good weather

Michael

[duluthboats]

Hi Mike,

Happy New Year.

Yes the clam shell thrust reversers on some large aircraft make very good brakes. They are even used to back the planes away from the gates sometimes. Every time I see one I also think of the Kitchen rudder. Thanks for bringing this back to the top. Maybe someone new will see it and have an addition.

Gary

In the 1950's I was member of the ships boats crew on a British cruiser. Our pinnance was eqiupped with what we rightly or wrongly called "Kitchener gear". It was great for manouverability, however, going from full ahead to full astern with a full load (40 or so crewmen) as you approached the ships ladder took some judging and a great deal of work on the part of the coxswain who had to spin a small wheel which controlled the two "arks" of the rudder. It took a well trained crew to bring the pinnance alongside the ships ladder, fighting North Sea currents and winds while under the eagle eye of the Office of the Watch who wanted to ensure that the ladder survived without a scratch.
Jim Hendrickson

[Stephen Ditmore]

Thanks for the informative post, Jim. Nothing like real world experience!

hi just writing to let you know i have kitchener gear on my 1940 ex admrilty pinnace she is a 35footer and in my oppinion the system is excellent from tjgee58@hotmail.com

[KitchenRudderNu]

Originally Posted by duluthboats

Hi all,
New guy here. I did a search of the archives and found no mention of the Kitchen rudder. So is there anyone out there with information on this rudder? I have the Boatbuilder article by Gerr. And a few other bits and pieces. I'm looking for stuff on linkage, sizing, even pictures. I have been around the web with this one so anything will help. A fellow on Woodenboat's forum said it was a good bunch here. If your into wood they also have a good bunch of guys and gals.
http://media5.hypernet.com/cgi-bin/UBB/ultimatebb.cgi
I have interests in CAD, CAM, CNC, along with building small boats.
Gary

Hi there,
Google found mention of an old entry you made enquiring about Kitchen's Rudder. I have just restored my old Kitchen Rudder which I removed from my 32' naval cutter, originally from the Ark Royal, a Royal Navy aircraft carrier.
I have the rudder assembly mounted on a stand in my office as a sort of conversation piece!
If you want some photos of it, I would be glad to email them to you.

[duluthboats]

If you would like to e-mail them to me that would be great and I’ll add them to my gallery here at boatdesign.net. Or you could start your own gallery here and include pictures of your boat along with the rudder. Welcome to the forum, I look forward to hearing more from you.

Gary

[SeaDrive]

There is a chapter about the Kitchen rudder in the book "From My Old Boatshop" by the late Weston Farmer. It provides some commentary and perspective, but probably not a lot of hard information that you don't already have. It does have an advertisement for an outboard motor version, though.