Just a thought

[abhishek]

no nothing can erode the importance of naval architects knowledge.........

[yipster]

just a thought.. skynet terminators are on their way..

[PAR]

People design things, not software.

[rambo!]

When you see something you´ve written quoted you realise that you have not expressed yourself clear enough, as adhoc´s comments about jokes.

Of course NA´s experience and knowledge will not erode, what I ment was from a customers point, a builder, a manufactor, a slaels organisation. Some examples shown here might be an indication of

So to narrow my question it should be more like, "is there a risc that a established NA´s knowledge and experince (and cost), will be outperformed by computer models that can give too much answers and power to a less experienced NA?"

Sorry for not being clear enough

Olle

[Ad Hoc]

Olle

The answer is the same, if I understand you correctly.

The issue I think you really mean is of perception. If a client sees lots of pretty colour plots and graphs, will the customer think the 'design' is better than if presented with lots of calculations by hand on a piece of paper, or by real photographs of real boats that the naval architect has designed before?

In today's world, an inexperienced client is the same as an inexperienced, or amateur, naval architect. Both are swayed by pretty colour plots. Not real design.

[PAR]

Again, look at the minimum cost of a custom or semi-custom, which would be the reason for consulting a designer. If you're swayed by the "Wal-Mart" version of yacht design, then you deserve what you get.

[Ad Hoc]

"..If you're swayed by the "Wal-Mart" version of yacht design, then you deserve what you get..."

Summed up nicely, can't add anymore than that really...

[yipster]

Originally Posted by PAR

People design things, not software.

rite, i know, i'm a designer yet everyone uses video and printer today and only a few are art directors
on a tour at cape kenedy the first moonflight controlroom was shown and all the old pc's there were as strong as a pocket calculator today
but without the flight would not have been possible
sure i agree with i think all here but allready long ago big blue won from fischer, karpov, kasparov or who was it?
self learning software is getting smarter and normal and gets implemented all over as do robots
everyone, even NA pro's, may be closer to a machine technocraty than we realise was my thought, a well, blabla

[PAR]

Machines aren't inventive, nor creative, can't be emotional, nor do they intrinsically know what is "sexy" in a set of curves. Software does not know what a fair curve is, but it does know the difference between one that is and isn't. Programs don't know why we put a back angle on a rub rail, nor how to access the aesthetic value of a particular profile.

What we are forgetting is that machines, software, etc. have to be cajoled into doing what we want, not the other way around. I have no problems with machines taking orders and executing pre-planned commands, but haven't seen them especially impressive at making independent decisions based on too little input, which is quite often just the case for a designer. Lets have this discussion when machines can routinely operate outside of their design parameters. Then we'll see how they stack up against us lowly humans.

[Yellowjacket]

Machines, CAD and computer analysis are but tools. They can only make the effort to design something easier and more correct from the start. They cannot make the important subjective trades that are required in each step of the design process. CAD, CFD and other tools help the experienced designer home in on a better design faster with less risk, that’s all.

This is true for not only the marine environment but for any real design effort. I've seen too many cases where the management team has tried to use cheaper less experienced personnel buttressed by lots of computer design tools and a top heavy "oversight" system to try to design a sophisticated product.

The end result is inevitably a disaster in that the inexperienced team drives off in the wrong direction and makes a mess of things and the "old hands" are then brought back in to make it right. The sad part is that the management team thinks that this approach is less expensive since the labor is cheap, but the experienced designer understands the trades up front and intuitively makes the right decisions from the start without a lot of computer aids.

[Ad Hoc]

"..The sad part is that the management team thinks that this approach is less expensive since the labor is cheap, but the experienced designer understands the trades up front and intuitively makes the right decisions from the start without a lot of computer aids..."

Ahmen to that!

I've sadly come across my far share of "managers" of this ilk....ugh!

[rambo!]

Thank you all, I think we can close this thread now, I´ve got valuable feed back.
Also some warning signs, but not enought to spot a trend. Maybe I find reason to bring this issue back a in the future.

But for now, thanx gents for taking time to participate.

Best regard
Olle