A junk in the making? Can I make a 65ft circumnavigate vessel?

Ari,

Surabaya is less confused than JaBoTaBek- Jakarta, Bogor, Tanggerang, Bekasi. Surabaya have a good marine history because the Biggest centre for Indonsian Navy is at Surabaya...... needless to say more people understand what a boat need........ ( Bali is for the beautiful yacht....... they send to Surabaya also for over haul......)

I recommend Bengkel Cakra a bit more expensive but neat work. You gotta go to their site to see the equipment and their facilities before committing to let them deal with you pet dream.

Here some link for your and mine dream of cheap circumnavigation engine option:

Marinizing Engine:

http://boatdesign.net/forums/archive/index.php/f-24.html
http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=650&page=3
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/nonroad/marine/marnfria.pdf
http://www.boat-links.com/linklists/boatlink-30.html
http://powerandmotoryacht.com/engines/0102enginepreview/index10.html
http://boatdiesel.com/Forums/Index....KEN=29523425&CFApp=30&Forum_ID=630&CFIDC=NRU2
http://www.soundmarinediesel.com/small_marine_diesel_engine.html
http://www.usedpartscentral.com/

Marine alternative engine search

http://www.ecplaza.net/ecmarket/list.asp?cmd=search&keywords=used marine engines
http://www.bekas.com/ads/class/0/919
http://www.cherrypicked.co.uk/enginesdirect/index.shtml
http://www.dockadvisor.com/listings139.html

Marine stuff MAID_IN_CHINA

http://www.made-in-china.com/catalog/item999i132/Gear-Transmission-3.html
http://www.chinabusinessworld.com/Marine
http://english.sccci.org.sg/index.cfm?GPID=-1&CSEARCH=1&Catg=2&SSIC=61285
http://www.sdecie.com/e_ybmy_02.htm
http://www.westport.com/news/newsdetail.php?id=283&return_to=index.php

All these link is to provide for the junk circumnavigation thread, other option is avaliable in the net for further search, Please this is not a commercial....

WDH

 

I am also trying to get coperate sponsor for putting their name on my sails....... It would be a sight to have a boat that configuration sailing near city area and have evrybody turning their head at the sail......... $$$ must be multiple or singular.....

How much people sponsor in Europe and America? Just for comparition....... this help build the boat also......... Financial boat building

WDH

 

Welly, Welly If I ever was going to buy annything from china it had to be one girl like that, but I belive my gf would trow me out even I told hear it's just a maid

The problem with proppeler and gear is that the material cost is high and it's hard to get the price mutch down without compromising qualety.

Welded gearboxes can often be cheaper because it can be custom made.
Cast gearhous is more exspensive because you have to make the mold and use alot off energy to melt the metal, but the cast ones are alot stiffer.

The work put into a gear and propeller unit is quite low since cnc macines has taken over a lot off the fabrication.

Engines is really not mutch money to save eather unless you go for second hand.

How mutch are you willing to spend on propulsion pack?
Marine diesels and propelers has no problem with age if the owner has taken propper care off it.

I can find you a second hand marine engine with gear for 12-13000USD and I would be suprised if you can not find the same in Indonesia.

 

Thanks Welly..that is one beautifull engine maid in China..thank you..I have got two 'engine'..thats enough trouble..

 

My budget for a used engine with the prop. will be around US$ 15,000 ? I know engine, gearbox and the porpellar set will be nice if new and professionally installed, I have seen some clean and beautiful set up with stainless steel flooring and good big room for heat exchange........ My dad really want me to build something on my own, he think 65 ft is way over my head but still doable.

I would sell my BMW and other useless toy.......... and my dog and her cubs just to have a decent boat with sail and cruisning power.

Ari, what size is your junk boat?....in ft......... it just seem we are only 2 guys with crazy idea on building circumnavigation junk vessel.

Anybody in the Forum have any idea........ building or input for us on this piece of project? This just the initial concept and drilling.

I will have the rough interior drawn on 3D and will post......... review it and correct it with the deliver of the plan.

Wellydeckhand

 

I stil don't know if you prefere cp or fixed pitch

 

Great news....... Found a Nissan RE8 280 HP no-turbo (8 cylinder truck engine marinized ) sitting in my shipyard doing nothing...... it seem my dad had taken it down due to fuel consumption problem....... fuel hike in price, the engine used to be in the Tarjun cargo boat, now with a smaller engine plan and travel slower.

Now here is the catch......... I get the engine free provided , I buy my own gearbox ........ proven bluebox cost US$1,700- made by Advance gear, our experience in other boat show problem in gear after 5 years, cheap to change anyway.......

The Nissan is 2nd but did full overhaul...... just estimate the power at 260HP for safety reason. I will inspect and photo the machine for viewing and post later on. I just want it done properly with a touq wrench and check on injection calberation, change seal work and etc.......... what should be done on this machine, to further marinized it?

Another option is twin disc gearbox can be order from Jakarta, price not yet known

About on-board electricity, what size do you advise for 3 air-condition ( 2unit 1/2 PK and 1unit 1 1/2 PK ), Fridge, lighting, sound-system, Driving equipment and instrument include radio and radar. 7,000- 10,000 W?

The compressor and decompressor have their own machine, cant take chances.

Anyway, does the engine suit for the job Gilly?


WellyOnCashDiet

 

Mine is 100 - 120 feet LOD, if the jib boom are used than it should be 150 feet LOA.The beam is 26 feet. Actually I requested for 30 feet but then Kepala Tukang doesn't agree..it will be too broad..At the moment the long keel timber readied for the boat is at 60 feet long, the 'Kepala Tukang' - Construction Chief said that should be long enough.Depend on further discussion, the jib boom is not needed if we install Chinese Junk Rig. That jib boom is for the Jib sail.Seven sail is too much for me and my non profesional crew to handle. I had check the pricing for sail roller from a few manufacturer..for this size of boat they are really very expensive..! Gotta use the junk sail and cut my cost..I'am no going racing with anybody..I do really like the soft wing sail descripe in this site.Eric sponberg free standing mast built for the motor sailor Naia is very nice..couple that with Dragon wing..thats what I want..I have some photos at my photo gallery.. the sail will be different.. http://www.trikini.com/Cheapwingsail/index.html

 

Ari, THAT IS A BIG SHIP, anything over 100 ft is big....... big cost in marina. But I am glad you know what u want.

Err....... what is your engine setup and power supply for nyoya? Thinks you wanna include in the electronic list of must have for sanity? As you say, we are not racer but cruise-sailor........ baby......

I intend to get married before the boat is finished........... or else the spec may change.....

Do you think I should modify the hull so it may break ice? Just thinkin now.

WDH

 

"Vibration is an enemy to me......... I'll take the four leaf propeller..."

Of course with out the big bucks of a VP prop you will be towing a 40 inch sea anchor under sail , no more 90/90 , more like 40% if that under sail.

The drag under sail would be the first thing to actually spend hard cash to get rid of.
A used variable pitch prop may be hard to find. Hundstat (SP?) has been in business for ever" and might have a suitable used unit.
IF the engine hp were reduced a 2 blade might be hidden behind the keel , asuming suitable blade area for the reduction gear.

To sleep at night with the motor pounding I would chose a 6 cylinder as they seem smoothest.

The "latest" in noise controll is to mount the engine with isolation mounts on a frame , and then mount the frame with isolation mounts into the vessel.
About 10% of the engine & tranny weight is fitted lead into EACH corner of the floating frame. Yes, it does make the engine package weigh 50% more , but the difference in noise on board , and transmitted into the sea is amazing.

I personally think you are WAY overpowering this boat , if it can sail at all.

Hardly a "need" to operate at over hull speed for cruising as the fuel cost will be 5X or 10X higher than usual..
With about 80 shaft hp , 4 gph or less the boat should motor almost as fast with far lower fuel consumption. I would be looking for a 100 to 125hp diesel and plan on running it as it likes , fairly hard.

Most engines will operate at 80% of their rated output at 90% of the rated RPM for their longest service life. Operate at only 20% of rated power and the troubbles begin.

FAST FRED

 

Anti-Vibrator

I am thinking rationally for safety,........ I may use less of the engine and more on the sail...... gonna invest in real sailing stuff, the hull design will be properly check again........ by my friends. I know carry a big engine is drag...... but when it is free and provide more power, who's to complaint? I think my dad is scared that I may not get back home in time for dinner........ thus the free engine.

The vibration, I leave that to the Aussie with POLY FLEX

http://www.polyflex.com.au/

or http://vulkan24.com still checking it out.

 

This is the only 4-blade I know about that is in a ceptable size and price range. http://www.westmekan.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=35&Itemid=35

Where I come from there used to be a company bulding 32 feet fish boat out off GRP and they where fitted with 130hp cumins and did 8kn. If they was fitted with 170hp they stil did 8kn, the diference was they take the ocean with them where ever they go.

I heard about plyflex befour, but know nothing about them, but vulkan is well known. You should find out how mutch the components you want will cost and also put a safety margin because I'm shure it will pop up something you forgot about.

What about electrisety? are you going for 400v and 230v? do you want shaft generator? It would save you some fuel, but it would nead more investment.
Are you shure you want a big lump off iron in the boat making the wetted surface biger and increase the fuel consumption? That the engine is normaly aspirated don't help mutch eather. A 250hp instalation can weight less than 400kg including engine and gear(not propeler) and that is a drastic weight saving compared to the one your going for now.(that is what I think annyway)

 

Sorry, I don't know that particular engine. Check if it's a heavy commercial duty one, and if rated HP are DIN or SAE, as SAE rated engines have less horsepower usable for propulsion than DIN rated.
Cheers.

 

http://www.twindisc.com/Downloads/Manuals/Operators_Manual.pdf

Twin Disc for 280HP 3:1 Type MG-5091 DC

It is either the Twin Disc or just cheap chinese Advance gearbox.... easy to get in Indonesia and the world.

Now let say the Nissan 8Cyclinder is not suitable then a Yanmar would be idle substitue for the plant? Picture below........


I found nice option for wall partition and floor layer..... save some weight.

http://www.ayrescom.com/products/default.asp

 

Boat purpose

Hi Welly, this looks likie a real interesting project. Trading with this sort of boat among various islands is a distinct possibility. There are roughly 75 to 100 small trading vessels that come and go from the Miami River out to the islands and Central America. There's also a skipper that welded up his own 90' x 30'steel cargo sailing barge that trades in the Bahamas and Caribbean. The sailing barge has a centerboard and centerboard trunk separates two cargo holds. Aft is crew quarters and engine room. Regardless what cargo that is carried, almost every boat coming out of the Miami River has between 50 and 100 used bicycles stacked on top of the cargo. (Here in Florida you keep your bicycle locked up and out of sight) According to the guy with the sailing barge, his most marketable items are instant coffee, powdered milk, instant hot chocolate, pampers, powdered baby formula and canned fruits and vegetables. I know that these same commodities move readily through the back allys of Korea and Japan also.