I would like to build this boat

[Fancy Shoes]

Well I am starting to think thus boat was a custom build. I have posted on 2 forums, and emailed the picture to about 6 different companies, 1 of which was the landing school. People are saying it looks Finland, Scandinavian,Norwegian,American,and Canadian.
I still am not going up yet. I will continue to search around. I done want to let you guys down!

[rasorinc]

I would bet that someone on this forum has the computer power to scan that photo and have dimensions computed for at least 1/2 of that boat. Then an engineer or architect could put a bottom on it and WALA you now have a plan. Remember, the older power boats were quite narrow in relationship to length. You could have that exact look but with more modern design and power plant.

[Fancy Shoes]

That would probably be a pretty much better idea. Build it modern so that it can go pretty fast.

[Stumble]

I think Ras is onto something here. A good designer could create the visual effect you want, while putting a likely faster hull shape on it. And while a good N/A can be expensive in absolute terms, compared to the price of a new build it is pretty insignificant cost.

In addition if you go with a company that already works on similar boats, they might be willing to split the design fees, or at least help prototype it.

[BATAAN]

Originally Posted by rasorinc

I would bet that someone on this forum has the computer power to scan that photo and have dimensions computed for at least 1/2 of that boat. Then an engineer or architect could put a bottom on it and WALA you now have a plan. Remember, the older power boats were quite narrow in relationship to length. You could have that exact look but with more modern design and power plant.

WARNING! OLD GUY RANT.
--
Or someone who actually knew what they were doing could whip out a cosmetically crude but engineering-wise proper model in waxed cardboard with scale weights, try it out, modify it till it's right, then build the thing and sell it at a profit to a happy customer, all in a couple of months...
Oh, but those were the old days of the 1920s and we just can't do that anymore, having lost our brains up our computers, being unable to nail two boards together without a PDF manual, caught up in reverse evolution and being rapidly headed back to being Neanderthals.
See Weston Farmer.
Boats. Are. Simple.
End rant.

[Tad]

Look through some of these links....

http://www.trabatsakuten.nu/


Also there are dozens of boats here......

http://www.cmbweb.no/index.php?optio...id=0&Itemid=53

[rasorinc]

BATAAN, I'm older than you so it is OK to rant after posting what I said. I could do what you suggested but I'm really slow with power tools.

[rasorinc]

Most all your old mahogony run-abouts were a shallow V hull going flat at the transom. So the bottom design is not rocket science. But knowledge is a necessity. I do not design hulls, just buy plans for an approiate hull and make my changes topside.

[Stumble]

Bataan,

Beware my anti-computer rant is incoming.

Why is it people object to computers. Particularly in the marine industry there is a sence that if it was good enough for 1860 then it is good enough for 2011. The reality is that computers are a tool, like any other they have their advantages, and disadvantages, but in skilled hands it is an invaluable tool just like any other.

A modern low budget design done on a computer will have more calculations done than the entirety of the marine business on every boat ever worked on pre 1900. Does this guarantee a decent product? No, but assuming that the modern designer has a clue what they are doing it certainly does.

By being able to Model complex shapes in 3d and run vpp programs on that shape, then quickly make modifications and do more testing a designer today can run thousands of iterations for even cheap designs, since thanks to modern computers these tests can be done with a fraction of the cost, and a fraction of the time that older modeling methods took.

Take for instance the hull modeling program that Bataan suggests. A competent designer could 3d model the boat shape in about the same amount of time a good model builder can build a prototype hull. Then through the magic of computers the designer can run iterations of weights, hull shapes, sea states, rigs, speeds, ect. And let all this run while sleeping. Then he comes back to work the next day and analyzes the data to determine which iteration is headed in the right direction. All of this running on a off the shelf desktop machine.

The model tester on the other hand gets one shape, and has to spend thousands of dollars to test that model, then gets to do subtle variation testing of weight location, appendage shape, sea state, ect. But each tests instead of taking seconds takes hours, drastically limiting the number of tests that can be run.

Finally after months of work each designer has a finished model. But where the old school guy got to model test ten or so variations the computer designer tested millions, and then went and tank tested the most promising to confirm the computer models. Yes it is possible that the model designer happened to get it right the first time, but it is latterly a one in a million chance.

Now does this mean the computer did the work, and now anyone can design a boat? Good god no. The brain behind the tool is what counts not the tool itself. I would rather have Nathaniel Herreshoff design me a boat by hand than any of the 'I designed a boat' threads started here. But that being said what could Herreshoff have done with modern computer aided designs.

Just remember that a current ipad2 has more processing power than the fastest super computers from 30 years ago. The amount of calculative power available through CAD is so immense it is almost frightening.

[viking north]

I don't want to burst any bubbles here but upon closer inspection, this old woodworker, observes the following: The hull planking looks like pine. The deck and cabin looks ply possibly epoxy coated and the base lines of those cabin side windows do not line up which leads me to believe, the windows themselves plus the two outer windshield windows sure remind me of the door glass out of 40's era automibles. I have a funny feeling you will never track down a particular make but she'a the product of some talented back yard builder making the very most of the materials on hand.--

A yacht is not defined by the vessel but by the care and love of her owner--

[masalai]

viking north,
I tend to agree with your suggestion, and, apart from what appears to be extra flare near the bow, the sides could also be ply and part of the outer veneer 'routed off' to give the impression of planking... as the paterna seems to flow from one plant to the next, (not as one would expect for planked sides?)...

Still does not detract from the overall impression of a very pretty boat...

[Fancy Shoes]

I can see the nails that went into the ribs of the boat. if that makes a difference of what the sides are made from.

[viking north]

Yes she is indeed a pretty lady, a water version of those classy looking antique Italian sportscars.--

A yacht is not defined by the vessel but by the care and love of her owner--

[terhohalme]

Don't think too big. It's made in late 40's or early 50's. Her speed could be 20 knots, not much more. It is clearly a semiplaning boat, soft chine. Her length is hardly more than 25 feet. That time cockpits were very small, two seats under the roof, one bench back, thats all, never a standing headroom. Beam not more than 7 feet. Still I would say, definitely a Finnish runabout.

[BATAAN]

Originally Posted by Stumble

Bataan,

Beware my anti-computer rant is incoming.

Why is it people object to computers. Particularly in the marine industry there is a sence that if it was good enough for 1860 then it is good enough for 2011. The reality is that computers are a tool, like any other they have their advantages, and disadvantages, but in skilled hands it is an invaluable tool just like any other.

A modern low budget design done on a computer will have more calculations done than the entirety of the marine business on every boat ever worked on pre 1900. Does this guarantee a decent product? No, but assuming that the modern designer has a clue what they are doing it certainly does.

By being able to Model complex shapes in 3d and run vpp programs on that shape, then quickly make modifications and do more testing a designer today can run thousands of iterations for even cheap designs, since thanks to modern computers these tests can be done with a fraction of the cost, and a fraction of the time that older modeling methods took.

Take for instance the hull modeling program that Bataan suggests. A competent designer could 3d model the boat shape in about the same amount of time a good model builder can build a prototype hull. Then through the magic of computers the designer can run iterations of weights, hull shapes, sea states, rigs, speeds, ect. And let all this run while sleeping. Then he comes back to work the next day and analyzes the data to determine which iteration is headed in the right direction. All of this running on a off the shelf desktop machine.

The model tester on the other hand gets one shape, and has to spend thousands of dollars to test that model, then gets to do subtle variation testing of weight location, appendage shape, sea state, ect. But each tests instead of taking seconds takes hours, drastically limiting the number of tests that can be run.

Finally after months of work each designer has a finished model. But where the old school guy got to model test ten or so variations the computer designer tested millions, and then went and tank tested the most promising to confirm the computer models. Yes it is possible that the model designer happened to get it right the first time, but it is latterly a one in a million chance.

Now does this mean the computer did the work, and now anyone can design a boat? Good god no. The brain behind the tool is what counts not the tool itself. I would rather have Nathaniel Herreshoff design me a boat by hand than any of the 'I designed a boat' threads started here. But that being said what could Herreshoff have done with modern computer aided designs.

Just remember that a current ipad2 has more processing power than the fastest super computers from 30 years ago. The amount of calculative power available through CAD is so immense it is almost frightening.

Stumble, you have not read Weston Farmer, a designer of six decades of experience. and seen his simple and practical 1920s methods which take hours, not months as you stated, use stuff you buy at the office supply store for a few dollars, and are amazingly and repeatedly accurate for a boat of this type and in this material, but you have made the usual assumption of the unskilled that anything to do with a model in boat design needs the industrial civilization approach like you were building a megayacht; a team of professional modelers, expensive materials and molds, must be tested in a professional wave tank at high cost and altered again and again, and is wildly impractical, and laughably beyond the reach of bumble-thumbs Joe Sixpack who might want to design a simple motorboat on his kitchen table, and that only the 21st century Bill Gates solution can be accepted if we wish to progress beyond stone tools.
Have you designed and built and then used those boats enough to say this? Yes the machine can run millions of scenarios while I go to Starbucks but that doesn't mean it came up with the right solution as you state, which then was modeled and tank tested to confirm what the computer said. What if it doesn't confirm? What if the tank test budget can't afford to test all wave states but assumes the computer was right and misses some harmonic that capsizes the vessel? These things are a matter of record in design history. You blithely make the assumption that it would confirm as a matter of course. That violates rule #1.
You also did not read my post. I did not recommend Rhino, I said it had been used to produce the developed models I showed photos of, and the method we used to make the ply frame. It was an example of how one shop solved a problem, not the right way a boat designer would do it..
About computers I stated that boat design does not require computer use, never that computers impeded boat design, obviously they add tremendously to some jobs, and are essential for highly complex ones.
The film jobs that employ me could not happen without our computers and my MacBookPro with $5,000 of movie-making software and a row of 2Tb FW800 drives is my daily tool.
I have seen much crap come out of computers and got my first Brainiac computer kit in 1962 so know how the tool works and what it can and cannot do.