I want to build a dinghy to race in my later years

[Richard Woods]

The Hadron is one I thought of as well (my Stealth is another option of course)

But it is a much more extreme boat than the Firebug which looks a pretty sedate boat to my eyes

Richard Woods of Woods Designs

www.sailingcatamarans.com

[Phil Locker]

Take a "classic moth" hull form, add wings for comfort, add a kite for downwind fun...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NByZm...ayer_embedded#!

[WhiteDwarf]

RW, I never liked the Mirror – but dinghy sailing owes a huge debt of gratitude to the Mirror and Jack Holt and Barry Bucknell. I envisage a boat that I can race on Saturday and potter during the week, so not as extreme as the variant of the B14 you describe. I had a look at your Web site, as a former Mothist, Stealth certainly makes the shortlist .

To put the Firebug in context, John Spencer designed it to provide an opportunity for builders and cut their teeth. Yes, it is an eight footer, but it’s among the best of the kind. Last week I towed a disabled Opti (plus frightened kid) to windward out of a group of moored boats, I couldn’t see an Opti having the capacity to tow any other boat and I did it in about 12 kts of wind and a sharp chop. Looking at the market for second hand boat market today, you can pick-up a 24 footer for $5000, so why build? The Firebug is a reason to build a boat, father building with son; sorry, parent with child. What a wonderful experience that can be. Now look at your local sailing club, do we have as many kids coming through as 20 years ago? No. The Bug is a cheap craft to place sailing in a positive social environment. You can do a good job in a couple of weeks and end up with a very enjoyable boat. Sailing can’t compete with the lashings of money thrown at kids by the sports which want to grab them and drag them into mere “fandom.” I sail the Bug because the sailing community needs the Bug, or something very like it, but I have had a lot of fun doing it. Oh and I’ve sailed pretty well every season for the last 55 years.

Doug, the Hadron appears to be an elegant design, a 12 foot version would be perfect.

Michael, yes boom height is an important consideration

Phil – how do you define a classic Moth. I learned on British Moths but I don’t see it on the list, too heavy for its size.

Again, thank you all for your interest

[Phil Locker]

re: "Classic Moth" ... good background here http://www.mothboat.com/
We've built a few rudders & daggerboards for these over the years, there are still people actively developing and racing these. There was also an offshoot class, fairly short lived, called the US Modern Moth where they added asym spinnakers to the boats.

[WhiteDwarf]

Phil,

Thank you.

My experience of Moths (distinct from British Moths) was a Stockholm Sprite by Chris Ayres; brilliant, incredibly fast and as unstable as a drunk bicycle. Then the Aussies brought a scow called Twora to the worlds at Lymington and thrashed us. A wonderful boat, but not for my aging body, regretably.

Thank you again.

[Richard Woods]

I used to sail Moths as well, five in all, my favourite was a Chelsea Morning, same vintage as the Sprite, out of Lymington. Chris Eyre was the designer, although I think Colin Brown had a hand in it

Boats that might suit you include Solo, Streaker, Byte C2 (but you cannot build one). I guess the RS100 is too extreme? Or the Blaze, but again you cannot build one

There are only a few modern hiking singlehanders you can build yourself in the UK, sounds like there aren't many down under either.

Richard Woods of Woods Designs

www.sailingcatamarans.com

[WhiteDwarf]

Richard, Sounds like we met on the water when the world was new minted.

When I explained why I sail a Firebug (post 18 this thread) I said the sailing community needs home building, particularly in these uncertain times. Skills are less, opportunities and confidence - ditto. Home building can bring in new blood and strengthen family and club/community bonds. Lindisfarne Sailing Club built (Tasmania) (I think 15) in one go, Carnarvon Yacht Club (Western Australia) - 10, Mordialloc SC (Victoria) 7.

Projects like those - and I am not suggesting they have to build Firebugs - can weld a club or community together.

A suitable design has to be readily built by amateurs, and not over too extended a period. It has to be viable for training novices, if only with a detuned rig, and viable for old backs and knees without being an "aquatic walking frame."

Of course, a large part of the cost is the rig, Storer and Dunderdale are following Bolger in promoting designs with lugsails, but it would require a certain fortitude to front up to a racing club with such a rig, even Herons are switching from gunter to bermudan! On the otherhand, bouyant (homemade) spars... Selway Fisher has a rework of the West Wight Scow, but I'm not going there, until the walking frame strikes!

A Jack Holt Solo, has been mentioned, but from an Australian perspective, getting that fully batterned rig would be tricky and expensive.

[messabout]

White Dwarf; Your screen name might suggest that you are an astronomy buff or maybe even a full fledged cosmologist. Those hot little stars and old guys like you and me will eventually burn out. I'm trying to delay that personal eventuality without a great deal of success.

I have also been sailing for 55 years, almost entirely in dinghys, and my body does not relish the exertion and acrobatics like it used to.

There may be a fruitful market out there for a designer who will dream up a small, lightweight, probably overly wide ( to hell with hiking straps, trapezes and hiking planks), modestly rigged, dinghy that has planing capability. That planing ability needn't rival that of an an Aussie 18, just enough speed to allow we geriatrics to get our jollies.

[upchurchmr]

Messabout,

You are describing the trimarans I mentioned before. Shed the image of Hobies flipping, use a reasonable sail area, and you can have comfortable sailing, speed that keeps increasing as the wind increases, and a new chance to get your jollies , even if it doesn't actually plane. All from a comfortable seat.

The Weta looks like a nice boat, but it is the equivilent of the high performance dinghys you want to move away from.

Good luck,

Marc

[Doug Lord]

Contrary to popular opinion there is absolutely no reason a small tri can't be designed to plane-like the Weta does. It can be similar to the Weta or fly the main hull or both depending on the choices made. I'm convinced for my own ride that a tri gives more comfort with less effort and greater speed than any dinghy.
I'm surprised so many rule them out when there is so much to offer.....

[WhiteDwarf]

Messabout, thank you, your radio telescope is on the same frequency, but please allow also a discount any hubris on the Firebug front... (and it could be a gentle and affectionate Bunny, your choice).

Marc, Doug, forgive me but I am a mono-hull man. Too old to change now, I think.

I looked at the Streaker (Jack Holt) web site, the design has a lot to recommend it, but the plans are unduly expensive, are available only in Autocad format, and then you have to print them on A0 paper.

[WhiteDwarf]

One vital consideration for the older sailor is self recovery. When Michael Storer abandoned the (I think) very promising Raid 41, his concerns were (1) the difficulty of re-entering from a capsize and (2) the propensity of the yawl rig to sail away from the skipper, in the water. To overcome the first, I suggested placing broadened bilge runners, say 75 to 100mm deep at the chine, or turn of the bilge in round bilge craft; short say 400mm long, but just aft of the centreboard.

When capsized, the submerged bilge runner would provide a step onto the centreboard and the higher one would facilitate a quick step from the CB into the hull as the boat came upright. Ashore, they might eliminate the need for a rigging cradle.

Any thoughts?

[upchurchmr]

Whitedwarf,

I understand about old habits. Probably beyond resonableness to get you to think of a dingy with training wheels = trimaran. Actually that would probably be a worse way to think of it for our male ego and self image.

You are forgiven, since I will stay a rabid anti-mono guy.

I'm really interested in what will meet your needs, so no more kibitzing from me, if you post a picture of your choice.

Marc