How to make photovoltaic solarpanels to suit our boatdesign

[Paul No Boat]

Yeah and those same customers go out and buy a weight bench and then use the automatic door opener to put it in the garage. I don't think there is an end to it Sand Groper. Just enjoy it for what it is and be glad you are on the installing side, not the customer side.

anybody up for a Minto Wheel? and to keep boats in it to justify the thread on this site, "Remember Noah's Ark was built to go noplace. Maybe he had the key to all time energy conservation. LOL

[sand groper]

Yep. You are right Paul. I'm a lot more sanguine about it all these days after spending too long in the 80's being chained to objects fixed or moving.
And the 'natural world' so beloved of the beard-and-sandals crowd has produced nuclear and chemical wastes, legal torture, and the alleged Sarah Palin, so maybe this is just what our species does best.

[Paul No Boat]

Is Sarah Palin one of those fertile female humans of which you spoke?

I had the pleasure of visiting the Mother Earth News experimental communittee in Tennesee some years ago during the back to the land movement. Funny thing is the creator of that magazine sold it for 13 million dollars and it now has chevy silverado ads on the back cover and he is playing Golf.

According to Sigmond Freud everything we do revolves around those female humans and a certain amount of this is a "How big is your solar collector?" opening line at cocktail parties.
Making it shiek is the key to energy conservation.

I still think Noah was on to something. Build a boat to go noplace sit in a deckchair and pop open a beer and see where it takes you. I'm not lazy, I'm just conserving energy.

[sand groper]

Noah still had to be on dove duty occasionally according to the fairy story.

Life seems a bit, or a lot, surreal sometimes when you don't hold the values everyone else seems to. When the great fiscal hiccup arrived I'd hoped for about 6 billion deaths from fighting over pet-food but it didn't turn out that way ...
Here in Oz there is a feeble debate about 'growth'. Growth in population, energy production, housing and so on. When is enough, enough ? We don't have much water or good land really.
But those pesky fertiles respond to displays of male power, and when males display, things can get tricky. We're good at making or destroying things but not very interested in maintenance, cleaning, or evaluation usually. So sitting back isn't on the agenda of the alpha males and they get all the girls, and we want them too, so competition arises and .......

[Paul No Boat]

it's a ball of confusion, my man!!

Bob Dylan said it well: "In a world of steel eyed death and men who are fighting to be warm, come in she said, I'll give ya shelter from the storm"

But now she has to have a solar heated shelter. LOL Go figure.

[BertKu]

Originally Posted by CDK

My LCD TV sets are all in good working order so I cannot provide proof and it is just an idea I present here.

Behind the LCD is a plastic layer with remarkable properties. At the bottom of the screen is a thin gas discharge tube in a metalized cavity with a slit where a plastic layer starts which extends over the screen area. The plastic layer effectively transports the light uniformly to the whole screen area.

Many years ago a client gave me a few colorful pieces of plastic bar that lit up at both ends very brightly when light reached the length of the bar. It seemed like the light was amplified because the longer the bar, the brighter. They have been on my desk for years, but I never found a useful application for them.

That same material is now used in every LCD screen, but it could also be used for a solar panel where the cells are placed in a row at the bottom of the panel.
There would be no heat problems because the plastic transmits only visible light.

Yes indeed, I remember that kind of gadget. I think it will work. I wish that somebody would actual do some tests, like with the reflector and now this gadget.

Have two panels, one with a reflector or gadget and one without. Have proper measurements and see what really are the pittfalls and advantages. A second panel cost about $500 for a 90 watt panel. A reflector cost $20??
selfmade. We are theoretically making assumptions, which are absolute correct. However , how does it preform under real conditions, that would be nice to know. An University here by us, is experimenting with reflectors and I love to know their results. I don't think they will publish this, as most likely the experiment is paid for a by a sponsor.

[BertKu]

Hi Sand Groper,

I was looking at the temperature versus voltage output drop you posted. Remember what I have said in a previous reply?, I allways like to put an extra cell in the solar panel, not 36 but 37 to compensate for the voltage drop by increased temperature or lower light levels. In that case the regulator with shotkey diode, not silicon diode, will still be able to regulate and suply the energy to your battery. I am not concerd too much about the temperature on a yacht above the sea. Enough cooling from the wind. Just the leakage current is the problem and therefore good quality cells are essential for such reflector methode. The leakage current at increased temperature varies from manufacturer to manufacturer.

[sand groper]

Yes, I recall the 37 cell bit. Seems logical, and 36 cells fit a rectangle for easy manufacturing .....
Looks like you'll just have to go sailing to test a reflector and non-reflector system side by side, finding out when the heat's too hot.
There's many claims by manufacturers about why their panels or technology is so good. If you want to compare refrigerators, or lawnmowers, or TV's or whatever, there's test results from consumer organisations.
But try to find PV comparison tests.
Here's an experiment in central Australia - http://www.desertknowledge.com.au/re...technology.pdf
and - http://www.dkasolarcentre.com.au/go/...-data/register

[sand groper]

This crew are comparing technologies and manufacturers -

http://www.desertknowledge.com.au/re...technology.pdf

and -
http://www.dkasolarcentre.com.au/go/...-data/register

[CDK]

Originally Posted by sand groper

Concentrators that are water-cooled may be fine for land but too much messing around at sea, though CDK's 'wonder-plastic' might see him wildly rich perhaps .....

Getting wildly rich has never been my objective. I am where I want to be and do the things I want to do. Getting rich would spoil it all.

The concentrator idea using an acrylic lightguide was picked up already in 2007:
http://www.morgansolar.com/lgo.php
They claim a 1400-fold intensity!

Instead of scrapping LCD screens, the light guiding material is available as an industrial film product for laptops, back-lit keyboards etc. There are lots of Asian suppliers.

[BertKu]

Originally Posted by sand groper

This crew are comparing technologies and manufacturers -

Hi Sand Groper,

I am delighted to read that a Monocrystaline manufacturter under low light condition, still archieve 18% i.e. 180 watt per square meter, with high quality MCP cells. It would mean for me only 3 x 1 m2 at both sides of the boat to archieve a cool 1 kw of incoming energy for most of the day. (during daylight)
Lets be realistic.
Alluminium can handle a few hunderd degrees
So does glass
Silicon can handle easy 100 - 120 degrees celcius, if of good quality
Solder can handle 180 - 220 degrees
It is just the type of filler used in a solar panels what could make the difference.

I am not greedy, but if 2 sets of reflectors on both side of the 3 x 1 meter solar panels could give me the whole day between Sun coming up and going under, 1 to 2 kw. That would be impressive and more then enough to puff on reasonable flat sea water surface.

[sand groper]

FYI - Bert's pm tells me that "puff" is a local word for "cruise" or cruising

[CDK]

Bert, I made another trip with the RV last week and found the location I wrote about earlier. They changed the configuration, now there are less panels and more reflectors.

[BertKu]

Originally Posted by CDK

Bert, I made another trip with the RV last week and found the location I wrote about earlier. They changed the configuration, now there are less panels and more reflectors.

Well, well well, thank you CDK, it was thus not such a stupid idea I had some time ago. The way they have it, is similar I had in mind for my boat. Having at both side of the cabin, as per small drawing attached.

Thank you very much. It does help me greatly.

Bert