Herreshoff Method and Plans

[Proteus]

Has anybody here have any experience working with and/or lofting Herreshoff plans?

I happened to come across plans for the N.G 12 1/2 with the offsets blacked out.

However, I had it pointed out to me that the waterlines are not perpendicular to the baseline, in profile view.

Yet, according to a small note under the baseline, the location of the frames are.

Hmm?

At the moment I'm pretty sure this has something to do with the Herreshoff method of construction, i.e., a mold for every frame and the aesthetic quaility of the frames tilting ever so slightly back when she is floating on her waterline.

I'd appreciate anybody's thoughts on this.

From what I heard it's quite a witch to loft even with the offsets.

--Brian

[Tad]

Proteus,

I guess I doubt it has anything to do with aesthetics and a lot to do with production. As the boats where built upside down, sloping the baseline from stem to the top of the transom brings the whole bottom closer to hand, downhand even. Easier to build means faster, and more money in NG's pocket.

Confusing lofting was paid for in the first 10 boats or so, as the yard only lofted the boat once and built a few sets of molds from that.

You can get full sized electronic patterns for the boat here http://www.3dyachts.com/contact.html

Tad

[Proteus]

Thanks Tad, that seems to be highly probable. Have you seen that treatment with any other Herreshoff Boats?

The only info I have on Herreshoff's method are the "How-to-books" for the Haven and Herreshoff Dinghy. Neither of which, even mention this slope.

Although, you can see it in Joel's White's construction plan for the Haven 12 1/2.

On a side note, I suppose those designers in Vietnam are not aware of the copywrite Cape Cod shipbuilding holds on the 12 1/2?

[Tad]

Generally speaking there are no lines drawings for NG's designs. Otherwise we would see them published everywhere. He took the offsets directly from his carved hull models and recorded them in a small notebook. The notebook went to the loftsman, who lofted the boat and built the molds from just the offsets. Then the loft floor was painted over ready for the next job. Thus I have no idea if the sloped building base was standard or not.

Joel drew both the Haven and the Flatfish with the sloped building baseline. I don't see that it would make anything more difficult, you just must be aware that intersections are not square.

I don't want to get involved in the copyright discussion, it is covered elsewhere at great length in this and other forums. But Luc is very aware of the issue.

Tad

[Proteus]

Tad, understandable about the copywrite thing. I read up on it quite a bit here, no need to beat a dead horse.

Personally, I have no problem honoring Cape Cod shipbuildings claim, or any others for that matter.

Although, I still wonder about its true validity among other repository claims to classic plans well over 50 yrs old.

In any event, my interest in Herreshoff is mostly for modeling and learning purposes. I'm not planning on building anything as of yet.

I just thought the lines plans I came across from mystic seaport museum a bit odd compared to what I seen before.

I knew it had to do with construction, but I also like the aesthetic quality it produces. i.e, the frames don't appear to be falling forward.

Just my personal taste, I suppose.

--Brian