help flat bottom designs

[ozaffect]

hi every one ive never built a boat before for i have been trained as a cabinet maker so im not worried about taking on a hard project

But i want to ask if any can help me find a design for a flat bottom boat (thats built of wood and not ply) for me that can carry 3 fully grown men to use on english canals i did find this http://koti.kapsi.fi/hvartial/ruuhi/ruuhi.htm but with no knowledge at all about boats i dont know if something like this would carry the weight of 3 grown men i do like things that are a bit vintage or clasic and abit different.

it needs to be about 10 to 13ft long and about 3 to 5ft wide due to storage but im now out of work so looking for free plans to save money or of little cost so what money i do have can be spent on building cost.

im sure theres someone out there that can point me in the right direction


cheers ozwold

[p_smith]

http://parker-marine.com/parker2_1.htm

check out some of his sharpies, or flattie skiffs from Chappelle, they are the real deal with almost two hundred years of history behind them.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Rzb...page&q&f=false

[ozaffect]

I kind of forget to mention it needs to be a rowing boat or a punt or have a 2hp out board fitted if needed

[Dirteater]

Hi ozaffect,

suggest if I may,
I think a Dory style boat might be perfect for you needs.
There are lots of great plans out there for not too much money.

They can certainly row, hold 3 men and be around 13' or so.
not to mention the different varieties of Dories to consider.
just a thought,

DE

[PAR]

Three"full grown men" will need a little bit more the 13' of length, if you expect some elbow room and storage. I'd recommend more toward the 16' to 17' range, which will provide the internal volume you need for three pairs of legs, the weight of the possably well fed legs and a cooler of beer for each.

Forget about those swamp boats you linked, as they are basically junk, unless you need to float in gator spit and pole around , well, in swamps. They're useless for much else.

The dory is an option, though finding plans for a solid wood build will prove difficult. What you want is a skiff and it'll have to be an older design, before plywood was as important a building material as it is today. This means a pre-1960 design. The 1950's really proved the pre-WW II stories about "laminated wood" (what they often called plywood back then) weren't true. Plywood was developed before waterproof glues and often delaminated, even in land based environments and suffered a terrible reputation up until WW II, where real waterproof glues and adhesives were invented and things suddenly changed.

Enough of the history lesson, in short you'll want an older design, possably a file planked bottom skiff or sharpie descendant. If you contact me by email (click on my name) I have several that may be just what you need.

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by PAR

Three"full grown men" will need a little bit more the 13' of length, if you expect some elbow room and storage. I'd recommend more toward the 16' to 17' range, which will provide the internal volume you need for three pairs of legs, the weight of the possably well fed legs and a cooler of beer for each.

Forget about those swamp boats you linked, as they are basically junk, unless you need to float in gator spit and pole around , well, in swamps. They're useless for much else.

The dory is an option, though finding plans for a solid wood build will prove difficult. What you want is a skiff and it'll have to be an older design, before plywood was as important a building material as it is today. This means a pre-1960 design. The 1950's really proved the pre-WW II stories about "laminated wood" (what they often called plywood back then) weren't true. Plywood was developed before waterproof glues and often delaminated, even in land based environments and suffered a terrible reputation up until WW II, where real waterproof glues and adhesives were invented and things suddenly changed.

Enough of the history lesson, in short you'll want an older design, possably a file planked bottom skiff or sharpie descendant. If you contact me by email (click on my name) I have several that may be just what you need.

The Dory Book, by John Gardner.

Old hardcover copies like mine are getting ridiculously expensive, but a newer paperback edition is available from the online WoodenBoat Store for $29.95.

http://www.woodenboatstore.com/Dory-...tinfo/300-043/

That isn't the same as free, I know. But the wealth of information on construction procedures and details alone is worth the price and then some, even if you don't use Gardner's specific plans. Money well-spent, if you want to make the transition from cabinet maker to boat builder....

[Dirteater]

13'? True enough...
my bad.
thanks for the clarifications PAR
Good advise as usual.

I do like the Dory,
flat bottom, row, speed,
maybe a tandem row set up?

choosing a boat is tuff,
as well as fun.
well wishes,

DE

[PAR]

Get the paperback version of Gardener's book that includes both volumes of his boatbuilding stuff. Good call Troy, as it does have quite a few very good examples of what this fellow needs.

My issue is, he probably doesn't know which is a good boat for his needs. The dory is a good boat for some, but only the modified versions, as the traditional designs are well burdened craft and need a belly full of fish to "calm" them down. Most dories row like crap, unless quite small and narrow, such as Bolger's famous one.

I'd be inclined towards a pea pod or whitehall derivative for rowing in his waters, but these are round bilge boats, not flat bottom. Since he's a bit of a craftsmen, I'd say the round bilge build would be more rewarding, though more effort. I'd also recommend a lapstrake build over a flat bottom, maybe a bit of both, a flat bottom with lapped sides. Maybe strip planked too.

Lastly, don't discount plywood as a building material. It has many advantages over solid wood for planking, hull shell partitions and bulkheads, seating, etc. For example, a glued lapstrake build has no frames and is a very quick way to build a light, strong and beautiful boat. You can't do this with solid wood, without the dozens of frames and other supporting members, which results in a more complex and heavier boat. In a flat bottom boat, using plywood greatly speeds up the process. No fitting of dozens of separate planks, just cut it out of a sheet and hang it on the building jig.

Food for thought . . .

[pistnbroke]

British canal ..apart from insurance at about £50 and a British Waterways Licence about £100 your biggest problem is where to launch it ....if you have a trailer its very difficult to get it near the canal edge...barriers or posts everywhere and if the bank is accessible you can bet its across council land or a farm...Marina want £25 to launch. Briitish waterways say if the crew can launch it ( ie lift it ) into the water ok ...If they carnt then its a crane job with saftey accesment £200 for each launch + crane cost ...They have bank patrols to keep you in order .. I have a 12 ft ramp built into the back of my trailer and I do it quick ...get a porta boat or 3 canoes ...( £80 each for the licence) We all hate British Waterways !!!!

[Jeremy Harris]

If the boat is to be rowed and is portable then the licence is only about £40, not £100. You can add an electric outboard without incurring the power boat fee, too. Alternatively, joining the BCU (now calling itself "Canoe England" for some bizarre reason) costs you £37 a year and includes insurance and a licence for pretty much every waterway in the UK.

I agree, there aren't that many big boat launch ramps on the canal network, but there are a lot of small ones that can be used by portable craft. The main problem with some of these is that they tend to be a bit narrow, often with access that means that the boat trailer/trolley has to be quite narrow. I doubt this would present a big problem for the size and type of boat being discussed here, though, especially if there are two or three people to manhandle it.

[pistnbroke]

Thanks for that jeremy ..I have a 12 ft boat with an outboard and its £50 for ins and £82 for a 30 day licence only covering BW and some rivers....I wish I had a list of these narrow slipways as its a real pig finding launching locations on the canal network particulary the 34 miles of lock free Oxford canal....

I think the point is still valid where is he going to launch and I dont have 3 blokes to man handle the boat ..keep the weight down and use plywood !!!

[Jeremy Harris]

My advice would be to join the BCU. There doesn't seem to be a problem in terms of what is interpreted as a "canoe", pretty much anything that can be human powered or sailed seems to qualify!

FWIW, I have a letter from British Waterways confirming that my 18ft solar electric launch is classified as a non-powered portable boat and so only pays ~£40 fee. As it happens, it's also covered by BCU membership, which means that the insurance and licence for pretty much every waterway is less than £40.

It pays to exploit the loopholes in the regulations................

The best place for tips on possible launch sites in the UK is probably the Song of the Paddle forum. Although canoe focussed, there is a wealth of knowledge on there on waterways access.

[pistnbroke]

Thanks again (sure this will help original poster) been in touch with Paddle England and to join you have to paddle...not electric ....So found insurance for £32 and could reduce the British Waterways bill from £80 to £40 if I follow you right by using my Minn Kota...not really worth it ..extra batteries would cost more then £40 to give range needed...Song of the paddle is hard going ..carnt find any lists yet.

[p_smith]

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-quot-Sharpie

here is a nice sharpie build. could also be done without the ply, maybe a cross plank bottom and a few wide planks for the topsides.

[pistnbroke]

Just as the best material for a draw bottom is ply the best material for a boat skin is ply ..the cabinet makers skill can show easily in the finishing ...have a look at the boat Morgan on www.epoxy-resins.co.uk the bloke is poor at fibre glass but the carpentry in finishing the boat is magic...