Greenline 33 - next generation or marketing myth?

[Mat-C]

I was just wondering what you guys think of the Greenline 33....
I know there are quite a number of 'hybrid skeptics' among us - generally with good, logical reason - but is this boat just the 1st step towards a new boating future, or (my thought) nothing more than very clever marketing...?

[Alik]

I don't see the point of pleasure boats becoming 'green' before commercial ships are not. The pollution can not be compared.

Take into consideration factories, power plants, etc. So why small boat should stay green?

[permagne]

Originally Posted by Alik

I don't see the point of pleasure boats becoming 'green' before commercial ships are not. The pollution can not be compared.

Take into consideration factories, power plants, etc. So why small boat should stay green?

That is a bad excuse in my opinion. You can't blame your next guy for not taking any resposibility on your own. At least that is the attitude for most people in my country I guess.

I embrace this new trend and like to see more of it. I could'nt be happier if i could do some of my boating in complete silence from any engine noise.

On greenline 33 in specific has som very good points and some weak. I'd prefere another smal cabin to be able to sleep 4 people. At least 2+2, adult kids without using the living space. But, I think this is just one of the earliest consept on this platform. Looking forward to see the evolution of hybrid boats.

[FAST FRED]

"I don't see the point of pleasure boats becoming 'green' before commercial ships are not."

There is no reason except RELIGION to bother with "green" anything.

It makes great advertising HYPE for silly people , but the entire "MAN MADE GLOBAL WARMING" is a simple Hoax.

Better fuel consumption is nice , but with autos we are burning an extra 10% to 15% just to clean the emissions from 98% to 99%.

Ever notice who the "greens" are? A few years back they were called the REDS.

Same solution , equal mud huts for all,

I prefer a reliable engine to one I can pipe the exhaust into the cabin.

FF

[Alik]

Originally Posted by permagne

That is a bad excuse in my opinion. You can't blame your next guy for not taking any resposibility on your own. At least that is the attitude for most people in my country I guess.

This is not excuse, this is reality. Start from eliminating bigger pollution is logical, otherwise it is just marketing. Besides their comparison of fuel consumption with planing powerboat is another marketing trick.

As to attitude of people in Your country: is Norway still whaling?

[daiquiri]

I would call this boat "back to the basics", more than "revolutionary".
A lightweight hull and a low wetted surface are the main reasons for low fuel consumption. Don't see a need for a "patent pending" hullform. Any of well-known and proven semi-displacement hullforms would come close to this performance if weight, dimensions and wetted area are kept low and comparable to Greenline's.

And yes, comparing this boat's fuel consumption to that of a generic planning boat is a bit dirty marketing trick.

By the way, the history of my cellphones and laptop PCs have thought me that lithium batteries' performance should be measured after 1 year of use...

Originally Posted by Mat-C

I know there are quite a number of 'hybrid skeptics' among us - generally with good, logical reason - but is this boat just the 1st step towards a new boating future, or (my thought) nothing more than very clever marketing...?

Well skeptics we are, yes.

And here again it is just marketing drivel to sell a poor performer.
To start with the design:
what is a "superdisplacement" hull? much heavier than a displacement one?
green babble.......

At 4 knots a fully charged battery array provides a range of up to 20 miles.

Impressive. Especially in regard to the statement that the PV panel can charge the battery to just 80% in one day of full sunshine.*

In diesel drive mode (d), the diesel engine propels the boat and drives the generator, which recharges the battery array at an output of 5 kW.

That means you drive a 5kW genny all the time, no matter needed or not! green?

At anchor the solar roof array charges the batteries, which provide a 230 V AC power supply to the appliances (via a 3 kW inverter). If the level of battery charge drops below a set value, the diesel engine is switched on in order to drive the generator and charge the battery array via the 5 kW generator. The propeller is disengaged (the gearbox is in neutral). This is the anchor charge mode.

So you have to run the main engine at anchor for charging the battery, when there is no sun! Thats a VW 75-5 engine!
green?

*which I doubt, because it seems the theoretical capacity of the PV array is 1,3kW. But mounted flat, that will never be the real output.

NO, one must be very green (premature) to buy that stuff. In fact this boat is a worse polluter than every standard , Diesel driven one!

Regards
Richard

[daiquiri]

Originally Posted by apex1

In fact this boat is a worse polluter than every standard, Diesel driven one!

Let's put it this way: It is a worse polluter than an equivalent (in terms of weight and dimensions) non-hybrid diesel boat.
In that case I am affraid it is correct. And probably at a much higher price, too.

[Willallison]

Mat - As a boat, and in terms of the look and layout, I quite like it. There are things I'd do a little differently, but that's always the case with most of us.

As a green machine, I'm afraid I think I'd have to fall on the side of the marketing hype camp. As you've no doubt read elsewhere around here, there aren't too many cases that can be made for your average recreational boater going electric / hybrid / DE.. whatever. And there have been some very detailed explanations in other threads as to why not.
But let me give a very simple example. The Greenline ios 10m long and 3.5m wide. It is powered (with the biggest engine option) by a 165hp diesel, which will give a top speed of 13.3 knots (MBY boat test, June 2010. 25% fuel, almost no water, 3 crew, light stores).
At cruising revs - 2400 rpm - it does 8.5 knots and manages 3.65 nmpg. High Cruise - 3000 rpm, 10.4 knots, 2.6 nmpg. Flat out 3600rpm, 13.3 knots, 2.0 nmpg.

My own Graphite, which is marginally smaller (9.8m LOA, beam 2.8m) is powered by a 260hp diesel (but would also work well with a smaller 180hp engine). In terms of accomodation the two are somewhat similar, though Graphite offers 4 permanent berths to the Greenline's two and the galley and saloon area is a bit larger in Graphite. The trade-off being that there is no separate cockpit, just a large rear boarding platform.
Now to compare fuel consumption. With 40% fuel (200l) and 70% water (280l), 2 crew and light stores...

At 8.1 knots, 5.0 nmpg, at 11.8 knots, 4.2 nmpg and at 14.2 knots 4.0 nmpg. Consumption remains at around 4nmpg until around 25 knots, before tapering off to about 3.5 at her top speed of 32 knots.

What's the biggest difference between them? The Greenline weighs almost 2 tonnes more than Graphite.

So, with a little bit of care taken to reduce weight, and careful attention to shape, Graphite uses around 20% less fuel....
Ahh, I hear you say, but under electric power, the Greenline uses no fuel. Well, the hybrid option comes at a 31173 GBP premium (again, MBY test). That buys a lot of fuel!
It also gives the boat a top speed of 5.5 knots and a range at 4 knots of just 20 nm. In perfect conditions (calm and sunny) it can supposedly maintain 3.5 knots indefinitely thanks to the solar cells and batteries, though that has yet to be confirmed by independant testing.

So - for me... marketing myth. Then again, they've sold 20 or 30 and I'm yet sell one, so they're definitely better at that than me!! (Mind you, I've found Graphite to suit my own needs so well that I'm rather loathed to part with her...)

[Willallison]

Hmmm - I see that whilst I was typing a few others have replied... not too many supporters yet though, I notice...

[fcfc]

http://www.greenlinehybrid.nl/prijslijst.pdf

Need I say more ?

38 400€ supplemental for the solar "hybrid" package. Who is buying that ????? (More than 1/3 of the 109 000 base price of the boat). (30 000 for hybrid, 8400 for solar panel)

Guess than the 165 hp NON hybrid (aka named "hybrid ready") 120 000€ version has 99% of the sales.

They have marketing geniuses in their team.

[Willallison]

I had a look at the one that was at the Sydney Boat Show, which included all the bells and whistles.
It was purchased by a Hobart man, but won't arrive here until January. With a little luck, I'll get some real-world figures on its success... or otherwise...

[dskira]

What means Green

[dskira]

They are full of.
They spend so much on glossy paper, how come they are green?
Its a freakin motor boat, that's it.
With a very unfavorable shape. Look at the aircraft carrier transom.
A suction cup.
Well I don't like it, you guessed right.
Marketing over the top make me nervous.
Daniel

[Petros]

Over the total life-cycle of any vehicle it consumes resourses: labor, materials, and energy. The life-cycle cost is the cost of these three resourses. It takes labor, materials and energy to manufacture it, and it takes labor, materials and energy to operate it, and it takes labor, materials and energy to maintain it over its life-cycle. All three together are the life-cycle cost of owning and operating it.

When you spend more on manufacturing and maintenance over the life of the boat (or car or truck for that matter) than you save in operating cost, you have wasted resources. It is not "green" to waste resources, spending more than you need to accomplish the same goal.

Therefore all of this expensive hybrid technology is just marketing. Virtually all of the hybrid vehicles fail the life-cycle cost test. Therefore all are a waste of resources.

They are sold ONLY to ease the guilt of the affluent for being born.

There is no reason anyone has to own a recreational boat, if you want to be "green" do not buy a boat. Or build a sailboat (with no motor) out of all salvaged trash using hand tools.