Great new thermal insulation for Boats?

[JonathanCole]

http://therma-green.com/technicals.html

[rwatson]

Hmmm - looks good but no prices - always a worry!

[JonathanCole]

There are prices on the web site and they are quite reasonable considering the benefits of light weight, easy application and corrosion-proofing. You get to this page by clicking on the click here to purchase button on the products page.

Quantities desired for 1 gallon and 5 gallons pails can be adjusted in the shopping cart.

Liquid Insulation and Corrosion Protection. For Pipes, Tanks, Metallic Surfaces. -40F-257F (-40C-125C)
$69.95 / 1-gallon pail
$349.75 / 5-gallon pail

Liquid Insulation and Mold Protection. For Non-Metallic Surfaces. -40F-257F (-40C-125C)
NSF Registered
$69.95 / 1-gallon pail
$349.75 / 5-gallon pail

Liquid Insulation and Corrosion Protection. For High Heat applications. -40F-400F (-40C-204C)
$79.95 / 1-gallon pail
$399.75 / 5-gallon pail

Liquid Insulation and Mold Protection. For Interior and Exterior Applications. -40F-257F (-40C-125C)
$65.95 / 1-gallon pail
$329.75 / 5-gallon pail

Liquid Insulation and Mold Protection. For Interior Applications. Can be tinted. -40F-350F (-40C-177C)
$65.95 / 1-gallon pail
$329.75 / 5-gallon pail

Lead Encapsulation Coating. Clear coating for encapsulation of lead based paint.
$74.95 / 1-gallon pail
$374.75 / 5-gallon pail

Automotive Parts Coating to reduce heat transfer and increase fuel efficiency. -40F-400F (-40C-204C)
$25.95 / 1-quart

Quality white, semi-gloss top coat for use with Nansulate® Coatings . -40F-350F (-40C-177C)
$56.95 / 1-gallon pail
$284.75 / 5-gallon pail

Quality white, primer . -40F-350F (-40C-177C)
$45.95 / 1-gallon pail
$229.75 / 5-gallon pail

[FAST FRED]

And always the hard question , how well does it burn?

FF

[JonathanCole]

How well do any foams burn? Do they protect against mildew? And with only a 3 mil film required, there is much less to burn!

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[ASM]

Fred

We frequently subscribe Delta T as a thermal and anti-corrosion coating for the luxury yacht industry. See www.mascoat.com for additional information, they have certificates from a lot of maritime insurance companies (Lloyds', DNV, MCA, etc.)

Another one would be Noxudol, http://www.noxudolusa.com/

All are thin coatings.

[JonathanCole]

Actually a 3 coat, 7.5 mil film is required. Another advantage is that it is clear. You can paint corrosive materials and still see any signs of corrosion under the film. There is also a high heat version.

[BillyDoc]

The data given by the company at Jonathan's first link tell an interesting story. The company shows a thermal conductivity for their material of 0.017 W/mK, and for Polyurethane Foam of 0.040 W/mk. These data give a nice thermal conductivity ratio of 17:40, or to put it another way their material is only 42.5% as conductive as the Poly Foam.

This is a painted or sprayed-on coating, however, so you are talking about very thin applications. But anyone who has looked at insulation for their house knows that a thicker thermal insulator works much better than a thin one. I doubt that the relationship is actually linear, but assuming it is for a first approximation, then two inches of Poly would have twice the insulating properties as one inch. Applying this principle to this Therma-green material, then you would have to paint it on almost a half inch thick (0.42 inches) to just equal the thermal conductivity of one inch of Polyurethane foam.

Furthermore, the Polyurethane foam was the WORST material listed at the web site cited.

All of which makes me think that the best approach is a good paint seal on the inside of the hull (epoxy or urethane) followed by a synthetic rubber based closed-cell foam either glued in place or mechanically held in place. The latter is less likely to trap moisture, but the former is less likely to let that moisture in in the first place.

[tom28571]

Interesting, but how much is true and useful after the fine print is understood?

The best insulating material? Maybe, but the best insulator yet discovered is a vacuum. Glacier Bay exploits this kind of insulation but it is very expensive.

I experimented a few years ago with making my own vacuum material. I took a 1" thick sheet some very porus foam, put it in a plastic bag and poured in some epoxy thinned with a lot of acetone. Had to see that the foam was not eaten by the acetone first of course. The foam was squeezed around to make the thin epoxy penetrate, taken out of the bag and squeezed as dry as possible.

After it cured, I tested the compression resistance and found that it would easily withstand atmospheric pressure. What was left was to seal it in a metalized plastic bag and evacuate the envelope. That has not been done but I did cut the foam apart and found that the epoxy only penetrated a little over halfway to the center from all edges. A better infusion method would take care of this.

I am convinced that one can make their own very high R value insulation this way and it will probably be better than all but the more carefully controlled Glacier bay material. The plastic bag is the same material used on potato chips and other foodstuffs sealed for preservation. It would be tripled heat sealed on the edges which my calculations show would be the weak point for air leakage. The metal film also acts as a radiation barrier.