God Is Made Of Aluminum...

[ted655]

If we accept that it destroys whole islands & their culture, AND, it takes a whole friggen hydro-electric dam to MAKE God in the first place. BUT, green he isn't. But, then, what is?
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Here is 1 of the many alums we build here for the oil industry. By the way, I'd never tell them otherwise, but they think their God. Shhhhh, we just won't burst their bubble!

[the1much]

i tell the oil companies their not god every day,,,right after i do the days billings,,,,and every time they call me to come fix 1 of their problems,,and every time they beg me for a separator hehe

[Tad]

Originally Posted by ted655

But, then, what is?

Jees you guys......have you no concept?

I just wrote a short piece about a boat still sailing and fishing (commercially) after 200 years. I would be interested in the service life of the Temptress....



RE; The 100 Year Boat.

Not to belabor the point, but I have news of another wooden boat that is fast approaching 200 years of age. There is an article in the January 2008 issue of Classic Boat describing the history of Boadicea, a 30’ transom-sterned oyster smack launched June 17th, 1808. She was built by James Williamson of Maldon, Esssex, UK, and registered that year by Edward Perry, also of Maldon. She fished for the next 130 years, until 1938 when she was purchased by Michael Frost, a dentist. Today his grandson Reuben is the third Frost to care for Boadicea. She was fortunate to have relatively few owners, each of them kept her a long time and all spent considerable effort in keeping her in better than average condition.

She is not the original boat, having been rebuilt extensively twice, but she does exist almost exactly in her original form and rig. “Bodie” is heavily built of 1 ¼” greenheart planking below WL with larch above on 4” by 4” grown oak frames spaced 10”. Though Michael Frost was not a fisherman he did continue to fish the boat year round for his 51 years of ownership, in winter this involved breaking ice to do so. His son and grandson also occasionally fish with the boat. The fishing is done under sail, bottom trawling using either a beam or small otter boards.

To quote Classic Boat, “ Perhaps the most important point is that she has survived not because she belongs to an historic body, but because she has always been in the hands of ordinary people who have loved using her for what she was built to do: to sail and to fish.”

Built of good quality materials, never “converted” for some other use, and receiving honest, caring maintenance, are key to having any vessel last 200 years, Boadicea is heading into her third century with no end in sight.

[ted655]

Trees? Only in color. Trees aren't "green", not these days. The original, old growth, "quality" trees are gone. At least anything of a caliber to build the kind of ships you are finding still around. Unless we are going to strip the last remnants of heritage forests, eco structure & people. Then we can build a few more.
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Renewable "forests" are a misnomer. There is no such thing. Tree farms do not grow quality timber. They are more akin to farming. The planted species is selected for it's rate of growth and a dozen other management values.
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Modern wood products rely SOLELY on modern petrol chemicals & technology.
Reforestation is a buzz word, used for raising funds & making the consumer feel good about buying a product they have not a clue as to the real process.
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Green can start green & go terribly wrong in the ensuing process, or it can turn green, (like aluminum), by being durable and saving on repeat violations. No practical building material is green. They all have their own issues.
Whatever the life of these ships, rest assured, they will rise again & again from the melting pot.
Wooden ships are OK, but a new, useful fleet of them is impracticable for todays demands, unless we kill a few billion people to lessen the consumer load on the planet.

[Sean Herron]

Hello...

I must put forth my usual public apology just now before things get blurry...

Ah - I am so sorry - OK done - beats bar brawling though...

Tad - how are things - things here are much like a broken toilet...

I am thinking about buying a stand up camper van and going aluminum - what thoughts...

Hope you are well...

Today - I am going to warm up my favourite chair and flip through my new shiny book on British motor torpedo boats - lovely...

As for my original arguement - I still stand fast from a cost benefit limited tooling point of view regarding aluminum - not to mention being able to fabricate for other industries as well as refits - brackets - radar mounts or what have you...

God is made of aluminum - plus - I just like it and understand it - go with what you know....

That said - when walking the yard - I always stop and stare at a beautiful woodie - there are two schooners in just now that are breath taking - not to mention the timbers on some of those damned working tugs - just fantastic...

A co worker and I got in **** from the boss one day last year for just stopping and watching two Hitachi diggers tear up an old Elco in the middle of the yard - yes an old Elco - abandoned and with a broken back - no one really gave a **** - perhaps I am mad and just don't know it...

Ted says: If it has tits, tires, or a transom, there's gonna be issues! - RENT IT...


SH

[rambat]

Aluminum, In a rare conjunction of yachts and green energy, is a god for both. It has the remarkable ability to release much of the energy it takes to make it without degradation over time like a battery. The biggest effort to date to exploit this magic has been done in Iceland. The local "free" Geothermal energy is exploited (and exported) by creating Aluminum ingots, these can be chemically reduced to release the entrained energy. Its getting a little more technical over time but some good info is here:

http://www.batteriesdigest.com/batteries_aluminum.htm

I think aluminum would be the "custom" boat building material of choice if the welding skills and tools were more widely availed. Sean is certainly on something, I mean onto something....

[Sean Herron]

Hello...

I suppose that is a point - the damned hydro bill - thanks for pointing that out - I wonder how that weighs out with some local builders - over head can be controlled by renting or buying off the mainland here - but hydro remains a constant...

Thing is - here in BC - every teen ager seems to know how to bipass meters to grow 'flowers' - might be something in hiring one of these kids to cut flashings and sweep the floor and 'other'...

I like MTB's - who was that American designer who invented plywood - was it Charlie Eames - I cannot remember...

Anyway...

Troubling times just now...

As for 'service life' - I did a refit on a Romsdal 56 built of steel with an aluminum house - what a beautiful boat and yacht conversion - drawings of same are in my gallery still - I think - The Delfin - service life seems to fall into the quality of vision or character of the owner really - it did in this case - The Delfin will be a little ship on which this mans grandchildren will grow up and bend fond and life long memories around - hell - it might even get willed within the family and carry on - proper little ship - pain in the ass build though...

See http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/sh...10/ppuser/3673 - damned nice 'boat'...

But that is another long story...

SH.

[ted655]

My son, the dolt, who failed to qualify in his pipe welding test, was too busy chasing pussy at the time, (which he later married), to review & retest. I & his mother were convinced he would NEVER be capable of supporting himself, (or his vices). After all , we already had 1 degree of his, (at our expense), hanging in our hallway, when he announced he was "burned out " in computers. It was at my "extreme" insistence he learn to weld pipe & pay us back at least part of the vast treasure we had, to date, squandered on his education.
As part of his welding instructions, he had received a smattering of aluminum practice. In a fit of anger, at my suggestion he was letting his little head make chaises for his bigger head, he screeched out of the driveway in the 3rd. sports car we had bought him.
Later, that day, he triumphantly returned from an interview at his present job. The company builds the ships I attached here. He SO impressed the foreman with his ability's to weld aluminum in all positions, that he was hired on the spot.
The damn stuff MUST be easier than I thought, to weld. My son, the dolt, does it! No paybacks to date, but he has quit depleting our bank account. That is why I think aluminum is God, it is a miracle..

[Sean Herron]

Hello...

Any F'in Dolt can be taught to weld - I am only good for tuesday thru to thursday...

Sounds to me like you got played from an otherwise intelligent teenager...

Best to chalk up the loss and do not make another one...

Do us and your wife a favour and just get drunk and pass out...

My squirts get out and realize its a race and just give up - no kids to support - great on moorage...

SH.

[lazeyjack]

easier to pass an overhead butt test than a downhand maybe cos the shield is trapped
tests should include, the xray, the nick break, and the roll around mandrel type,
Funny stuff al al, you can have a v nice looking weld, but inside it has inclusions, porosity, and lack root fusion, not to mention cold lap
I found it took up to 5 years to produce a top welder, know how to prep plate, the land size all of it
Any dolt cant be taught to weld?, IMO, well maybe but to be a first class welder, is a bit different, and to know how to drive a straight unprogrammed mig, which can pour in more wire per hour than a pulse programmed machine, takes some expertise, its not only the welding its setting the volts and amps as you go, , you need remotes as you go from down to vert up, In a boat you need a feeder that can be 100 feet away from the power plant, long remotes and at least 25 foot of gun cable
people who ONLY weld, that is they don;t fabricate, or anything else, need a special mentality, God knows what they think of all day. I know in my days when I welded 7kg of al al wire a day, i was just exhausted, so tired from the arc and the fumes
Hobart made the only TRUE pulling gun, the rest are only assist,, but they stopped making it as the drive motors which spun the wire out is a coil /helix effect, were too expensive to manufacture,
Now all I can find is pretend push pull., like Hofftiger, binzel,
Is that your trawler type Sean

[Sean Herron]

Hello...

Lazy - some laid off carpenter once cracked a joke at work...

'What do you say to a high school drop out' - nice weld - I felt like laying him out with my pipe wrench - or giving him some 3/16 316L SS to a mild 1" plate on a diesel machine with 309 sitcks and seeing what he could lay down - all that around the CATS under preliminary line up...

Cheers...

Lets not argue - I am very tired at the moment - looks like I need to move on...

We have two HB's - guys do not take them because they look 70's - clunky but perfect and hot - that 'effect' lets you just 'draw' - light a smoke - unroll a candy - fantastic...

I hate change...

Oh well...

Romsdal was built in Norway- I think - shipped to USA for house fitting and other - Romsdal is a place name - and a family name...

SH.

[lazeyjack]

do not live here me boy, go take a walk, or hug a tree, or run, get away from this place, go chat up the swishest looking woman at your supermarket, do you good,

[Tad]

Sean you need to come visit and get your hands into some rotten wood....good clean fun.

Not here to argue....not at all.

But I urge folks to consider the real effect of your choices. I love aluminum and have designed a number of vessels in the material, from a 16' skiff to 137' ketch.

I have no way to truly judge the "greenness" of a stand of trees over a pile of aluminum ingots. But I can report my impressions. I will not save the world, but I can change my activities to try and lessen the harm (as I see it) my choices do.

Hydroelectric dams and Nuclear power plants (to create the energy required for smelting aluminum) do not seem very "green" to me. The energy required and the devastation seem immense. The propaganda disseminated by Alcoa concerning Iceland is an example, see http://www.savingiceland.org/
for the other side of the story.

Claiming that the trees are all gone or that wood requires petrochemicals to grow is perhaps partly true in the big box world of massive profit from mass production. But it sure is not true in my world of local production for local use. I live on a small island where we just leave a piece of land alone and trees grow. These can be selectively cut, milled and used, even to build boats. No this wood is not 600 year old first growth, but it is entirely useable. Especially when combined with small amounts of petrochemical epoxy (oh compromise).

[Sean Herron]

Hello...

I was not argueing 'Green' so much as reusabuility and recovery of cost and limited start up tooling costs - to that end wood is just as good...

I just like bashing metal - not to mention that I can get sheets to the expansions that I am considering...

SH.

[the1much]

Originally Posted by Sean Herron

Hello...



I just like bashing metal - not to mention that I can get sheets to the expansions that I am considering...



SH.

thats why i LOVE fiberglass,,,,i can grind da hell outta it,,and if i get carried away,,,in a few hours i can make it "new" again hehe
and as for RE-usability,,,ya we'd have ta vote fer alum.,,,less of course its been "stressed" at anytime before.,,,then its bout as good as paper.,,,,,, do they have a "carfax" for boats?
hehe