Glassing a new wooden Boat

[mjboats]

Hello, Thanks you to all who gave me advice, i found a much larger boat than what I was thinkin but none the less it works for what I want. Its call the sportster, its a plywood built and I would like to glass the outside but not quit sure where the best place would be to find the resin and cloth, would like it all as a kit with the fabic and all, and any tips that could save me from making fatal mistakes at my first attempt. Thanks again MJ

[alan white]

How big is the boat, what kind of boat, is it bare plywood now?
You won't find a kit, just seperate supplies.
Got any pictures?

[pistnbroke]

REVISED POST

You can get a copy of Carene 2008 which is excellent easy to use design software for stictch and glue at http://pagesperso-orange.fr/robert.laine Its at the bottom of the page .

If you want to see photos of a stitch and glue in progress go to www.epoxy-resins.co.uk and click on a photo of a boat called Morgan

No you carnt do that he has taken them all off ..talk about shooting yourself in the foot

[mjboats]

Yes alan right now it is just bare ply, well i am still working on the framework but i am going to have ply on this week, It 12' long and has a beam of 52", I will uploads some picture soon, thanks for the great advice I will look at those pics,, mj

[epoxymanuk]

Originally Posted by pistnbroke

Hi mj its me again ..go to the www.epoxy-resins.co.uk home page and scroll down until you find a boat called MORGAN ..if you clik on the photo you will see loads of photos of the guy making it and putting the cloth on the outside ......note he did not put enough filler in the joints and you can see the cable ties and it looks rough ....I prefer to glass between the ties and then pull them out ...they tell me you must must must use epoxy resin .personally I dont like the extra layer of tape he put on the outside it looks messy just where you want it tidy..round the edges and put one layer of cloth over the lot
Hannu's boatyard is another good place to get ideas .he is a nutter boat builder......I buy my resin/cloth on ebay.

It Might be nice to ask before using copyrighted images
Rob

[pistnbroke]

You are totally right Rob and I have tracked you down as the owner of (web address removed). I have promoted your site on this and other boating sites as you are the only easy source of Carene Software . so thanks Pistnbroke for bringing me potential customers. I am well aware that the guy who took the pictures holds the copyright but clearly he is happy to have them on the net and help promote your business as he gave you permission to use them . The copyright owner can only inforce his rights in law if he can show a monetary loss which he cannot . I have removed the images and will remove all reference to (web addrss removed) in past posts . Trust this makes you happy.

[Chris Ostlind]

p-broke...

You've got an interesting take on copyright protection... some of it decent and some of it less so.

In the US, the person who took the pictures retains the copyright... unless, and until they sign it away to another for agreed upon purposes and a possible fee for same. What's to say that the photographer did not simply assign the photo rights to the epoxy man to use as he pleased? If that's the case, then there's a serious chance that you may have caused the owner harm. Photos are a property and like any property, one is not entitled to simply take it without permission.

Saying that you "promoted" the resin man's interests on the Internet may, or may not, be a tool you can use in your defense. Much of that would depend on the marketing plan that the resin man might have and how your "benevolent" process may have hindered, or helped his plan.

In any event, he was correct to suggest that you simply ask before nabbing said imagery. These comments are applicable for the US. They may be different where you live, or in the UK, but I doubt that they will be different by much. There are all sorts of International agreements to protect intellectual property across borders.

You did the right thing by taking down the material.

[Tractorshaft]

Originally Posted by epoxymanuk

It Might be nice to ask before using copyrighted images
Rob

Did ya'll not see the poor guys address; Good old mother England, dont ya'll think they have enough rules already? Cops with no guns, oh dang, citizens with no guns, funny names for stuff...Cant we just talk about boats , and I say THWT, if they make a good product say good stuff, if they make crap, say that too. Use their photos and URL's if it helps us all with "Pretty Pictures" I could personally care less about the "Legalities" of any of the cross tracked, hijacked thread,

I visit this great forum for boat talk, not "Armchair Lawyer" talk about some epoxy or such.


Oh, and the "Funny Talk" and "No Guns" comment goes double for you Australians

Dont be "Hatin" when you could be "Appreciatin"

Alright,

taking some of my own advice;

MJ: If you have never "Played" with epoxy before I recommend the West Systems website, its chock full of in-depth articles of how people used their product (any epoxy will apply in the overall scheme of "Learning"). Some caution is due, the exposure to this stuff is cumulative, its sticky nasty , like Gorilla glue, use white vinegar to clean it off your skin if you should get some on you, ha ha, inevitable..Use MEK or Acetone to clean your tools with, invest in a box of surgical gloves, latex rubber ones if you arent allergic, they last longer than the "Blue Ones" do.

Start small, be very concious of how large a batch you mix up, it is "Exothermic" in nature, larger batches in a cup for instance will "Cook off" faster than you can say melted plastic when your turn your back on it for a minute. Lay out big batches, 16oz or so in a large surface area pan, like your wifes brownie pan or something..cough.cough..avert eyes..and practice "Not Me, nope, havent seen it innocently until perfected".

Seriously, play with some smaller projects so you can get a "Feel" for how the stuff flows out, get some various fillers, cab-o-sil, micro-baloons and adhesive filler (for making thickened glue) should get you started. Some wood flour is good too for filling holes. Talc or flour can be used in a pinch for thickening agents that wont kill you trying to sand. Graphite makes a great bearing surface as an additive, powerded aluminum makes it nearly strong as the real thing. You will seriously need to grind it with an abrasive wheel after a day or so of curing. Play with vacuum bagging, its the easiest way to get a "Performance" edge out of the stuff. Start small and gain a little experience before you start with what I consider to be an intermediate project that you describe. I am not saying it cant be done the first time out but little mistakes are much more easily cleaned up and scraped off than "Big Mistakes", by the way, when they say mind the proportions 2:1 etc and to stir it for two minutes they dont mean 15 seconds, it makes all the difference in success or failure. This is the most common mistake by new users, not following the directions, they are not open for much interpretation, follow them to the LETTER , mix small batches and watch out for 4 or more oz batches in mixing cups "Exotherming" on you, just do a test batch to watch it "Cook Off", then you will know what I mean, you can speed the process up a little with a hair dryer or heat gun. Just warm up the epoxy good, stir and let it sit for a minute or two.

Also get a feel for how the fabric you have purchased will "Lay Down" in corners, curves, sharp edges, no time like a bucket full of hot epoxy, two sticky hands, a yard of dripping wet cloth not conforming to the "Shape" of what you want it to. Dont ask me how I know this...."Glass" a little cooler or some other square shape before you attack the boat, plan it in stages so you can cut, conform and lay out the cloth without voids, air pockets or other little "Problems" that will bite you. Get a feel for wetting out the cloth, removing excess epoxy, getting it to "Lay down" properly for you. Its not hard, just not completely something you can "Attack" and do, when you mix up the epoxy the timer starts, have all of your materials "Dry Fit" first before you mix an oz of the expensive epoxy. Dont ask me how I know to do this, wrap plastic baggies around expensive tool handles that you may need with stick hands, rubber gloves are cheap, change them often and whenever you need to touch something you dont want to spend 15 minutes cleaning later. Oh, here is another "Nugget' for you and the #1 rule I will share with you for this op.

Though shall clean up excess epoxy when wet and pliable, not hard, unmoving and fully cured...This is the #1 commandment of epoxy work

Have fun!

[hoytedow]

I thought it was generous and helpful of pistonbroke to lead a potential customer to a potential supplier and it was very moral and right of him to remove it as soon as it was requested. There are American epoxy suppliers mjboats can patronize.

[dskira]

Copyright on internet? You dreaming
Al Gore who invented the internet take $0.0000000000000000001 for each image copied from one site to the other.
The problem is: if your turn off the power, the image don't exist. And since the image itself is a reconstitution, the image itself do not exist
So I take an image on the internet, put on a website, and turn off my computer and since the image do not exist the term copyright can't exist, since I copy something not existing at the beginning.
So Al Gore will have no royalties.
It was long and painful, but don't applaud to loudly.
Daniel

[dskira]

Originally Posted by epoxymanuk

It Might be nice to ask before using copyrighted images
Rob

It will be very nice to say thank you for the free promotion.

Daniel

[hoytedow]

I can't applaud while I am holding my ribs. ROFL

[dskira]

Originally Posted by pistnbroke

You are totally right Rob and I have tracked you down as the owner of www.poxy-resins.co.uk. I have promoted your site on this and other boating sites as you are the only easy source of Carene Software . so thanks Pistnbroke for bringing me potential customers. I am well aware that the guy who took the pictures holds the copyright but clearly he is happy to have them on the net and help promote your business as he gave you permission to use them . The copyright owner can only inforce his rights in law if he can show a monetary loss which he cannot . I have removed the images and will remove all reference to www.poxy-resins.co.uk in past posts . Trust this makes you happy.

He Rob, what's better than that? You f.....................
Smart move my friend
Your stock holder must be happy of your promotional skills.
Daniel

[Obsession]

Don't mean to contribute to taking the thread off topic, but to be fair, you use another person's image without asking, even with the best intentions, you are asked to remove it, seems case closed no big deal. You never know what someone else's pressures are -- maybe the builder isn't the type of person who appreciates comments on his work or other ways of doing it; maybe it was sold to a customer who is sensitive. Who knows... if you don't ask permission, even trying to do good, once in a while you'll accidentally step on someone's toes. Honestly the above seemed a polite enough request.

[epoxymanuk]

Originally Posted by dskira

He Rob, what's better than that? You f.....................
Smart move my friend
Your stock holder must be happy of your promotional skills.
Daniel

Hi Daniel
I own all the stock and the only promotion offered was for hull development software that we give away freely, and as we only ship within the UK I do not see the advantage of the so called promotion of my company.
Regards
Rob