Future Sportfisherman Looks like the Past?

[eponodyne]

Originally Posted by longliner45

eponodiny,,what do you mean that none of this has a place here ??that is typical liberal( everything is ok till you dissagree with me)attitude,,,,al gore sucks,,,,,,but globale warming is a farce ,,if it were true ,,why is mars getting warmer?? there has been iceages ,and heat ages ,,for millinium,,deserts dont shrink,they only get larger ,,someday this earth will be a burnt out hull ,,like mars ,science tells us that the polar caps were once tropical ,,can you explain ,,why is there seashells in my backyard?,,,now back to al gore ,,he uses and waste more power than 20 familys combind ,,yet he preaches conservation,,,,,he is one big fat piece of ****,,,,longliner

What do I mean? Disagree with me, by all means: dissent is the process; but don't just dismiss scientifically gathered and peer-reviewed evidence because you don't personally like the source.

No one disagrees that the planet's getting warmer. What's under fire is why, and the only thing that seems to be a commonality among those who believe that man has nothing to do with, it is a decidedly Fascist point of political view.

And either get a new keyboard or quit hitting the comma key so many times. Drives me nuts, and you're losing credibility.


Hawkbill is very beautiful. She'd look a lot better moored at my lake house.

[FAST FRED]

The Isuzu genny I have in mind burns about 1 gallon per hour and, I'm hoping, will move the 24-ton boat at about 7.5k.

The math for this will be hard.

A fuel burn of 1GPH is about 18hp , maybe 20 with a electronic injected turboed engine (some genset).

Hyd drive will cost about 10% or more between the pump and motor losses .

2HP per ton for a 24 ton vessel will need 48hp at the shaft , more than double what 1 GPH will produce for a SL of about .8 .

You will need about a 75 ft LWL to run .8 SL and see 7.5K thru the water.

FF

[longliner45]

eponodyne,it is always a pleasure to agree or dissagree with people who dont take it personal .(I try to stay out of politics,because I cant change them anyway)I will agree ,the world is getting warmer.why ?is the question,so many forest fires putting carbon in the atmosphere?I really dont think it is man made ,the factories of the 20,30 ,40sand 50-70s were much worse than todays,,,,,,thankyou,,,,are ya going to wrestle that boat from fred?

[FAST FRED]

"I will agree ,the world is getting warmer.

YES !!!Warmer , thank goodness

In a few hundred more years we may finally be past the "Little Ice Age", and we can get some fine wine from Vineland again.

That the Earth changes temperature constantly is written in her 4 billion year history.
That plant food ( CO-2) is the cause of the change is nonsense as the past record shows the CO-2 changes well AFTER temperature changes NOT BEFORE!

A Socalist grab for our wallets , yet again , is the only reason for this hype.

Older folks will remember the ICE AGE that the socalists claimed was "coming" in the 70's and the expected "riots" during the massive population shifts as folks fled the advancing ice sheets..

FF

[Pericles]

FF,

So sorry to pour freezing ice cold water on your hopes. Thus spake Dr. Don J. Easterbrook, Professor Emeritus Geology, Western Washington University, author of 8 books, 150 journal publications with focus on geomorphology; glacial geology; Pleistocene geochronology; environmental and engineering geology.

"Look at history, where we are in 2008, and where we’ve been. If you go back to the beginning of the century, there was a really deep cold period from about 1880 to 1910, and then it warmed until about 1945. Most of the global temperature records are set in the middle of the 1930’s when it was warmer than now. And the same is true in Greenland--the temperatures in the 1930’s were warmer than they are now. In ~1945, we did a flip to thirty years of global cooling. The time of maximum CO2 emissions started in 1945 and temperatures should have shot up, but we cooled off. That’s an anti-correlation. In 1977, we got warmer and warmer. If we look back 500 years, the trend of 1977 to 1998 is not unique to this century. For about 500 years we have 30–year periods where it gets warm/cold, warm/cold.
We’ve been warming up about a degree per century since the Little Ice Age in about 1600. We’ve been warming for 400 years, long before human–generated CO2 could have anything to do with the climate. If we project the previous century into the coming one, my projection is that we will have about a half-a-degree of cooling from 2007 (plus or minus three to five years) to about 2040. Then it will start getting warmer as we enter the next warm cycle, followed by cooling again. By the end of the century, we’ll have less than a half a degree temperature increase, instead of the ten degrees or so predicted by IPCC. A huge difference. The IPCC projection says that by 2011 we should be one-degree warmer than where we were in 2005. But, we’re getting colder. We declined about 0.7 degrees in one year. We’re going in the opposite direction. With IPCC data and their graph, by 2011, the difference between my projection and theirs is about one-degree and that’s huge. Now, they have to increase a degree in three years. If that doesn’t happen, their projection is wrong and mine is right."

See full interview. http://icecap.us/images/uploads/DonE...Transcript.pdf

Perry

[Fanie]

While you guys are sorting the better fishing conditions out, I'm with Brian on multihull fishing. Cat or tri rules. The only reason there are not more multihull fishermen is simply because the equipment and setup does not really cater for it and it is not the norm to fish from them. It is going to change soon. Going after sport fish you can trawl up and down all day every day... for free.

[Timm]

The big problem with multihulls for fishing is the height of the cockpit and coamings. To wire a billfish, you need to be able to reach over the side and grab the bill. Traditionally this meant about 3' (.9m) of freeboard was the norm. With the tunnel height pushing the cockpit sole higher to avoid slamming, this makes it really hard to get low freeboard back aft in a cat.

I think we will see some of the boats going slower as Tad suggested. It wasn't that long ago that a 30 knot SF was a fast boat. Maybe we will go back in that direction. The boats will still be fuel hogs, just not as bad. I can't see canyon runners in the NE cruising out at 8 knots, these guys just don't have that much free time. If you only have the weekend to fish, taking 15 hours of it going out 60 miles and coming back isn't going to fly.

As for the GW debate, when someone can tell me what temperature the Earth is supposed to be (within a tenth of a degree), then I'll believe them. You ever notice that all the temperature graphs show a 100 years or more along the bottom and then degrees measured in tenths on the side? Change that side scale to 100 and it will draw a straight line.

[plankton]

Hi folks,

First time post here and hope i don't put my foot in it too much - or upset too many people, but I've read all the posts here and feel the need to add some more fuel to the fire.

I've been a fisherman most of my life, both commercial and in the charter industry, and have run boats in almost all the oceans of the world. As a person who has spent many hundreds of thousands of dollars on fuel, believe me when I say it hurts to pay the fuel bill every year like some of us do. Worse still, we do so in the knowledge that we are doing the "wrong" thing too.

I became enamoured with Richard Postma's Tara Vana many years ago and always hankered to go and fish it. Whether you have an engine or not, a vessel will always raise fish for the simple fact that most apex predators are curious and will come to look at a strange object in their realm, particularly if they think it might be a whale or other large object that harbours bait. This is the essence of attraction. The capture ratio of each individual boat will then reflect how long it keeps the predator in the region and whether it triggers a bite. A vessel that creates the right "footprint" will be a good boat to fish from, and it is broadly accepted among sportfishermen that a boat with an irregular aura is less attractive than one with a smooth signature. In this respect, a motorised vessel with a deep wooden hull and a slow revving engine is held in high regard - likewise a sailing boat with no engine noise but a purposeful wake with regular hull noise and motion will also attract and hold fish.

So, the answer to whether a sailing boat will catch fish like a motorised boat is inconsequential. Indeed, to catch a fish you have to run it over, and you can do that in either type of boat. Sometimes a fish on the surface will shy away from the sound of a motor, othertimes it will not matter what boat goes where - the fish will be feeding with abandon and everyone will catch.

The arguments over hull configuration take a bit more thinking. I have owned and fished both monos and cats, and in essence my impressions today of their differences are as follows :

- if you are going from A to B and not trolling or anchoring, then a catamaran is a far superior beast in almost every respect

- if you are trolling, then a catamaran between 18 and 30 feet in length can exhibit its one vice - the head sea bang. There is no getting away from the fact that a small to medium size cat will be uncomfortable going head on into a sea at trolling speeds. Cats above these lengths can gain considerable advantage in waterline length and the height of the wingdeck above sea level, and at such sizes can become much more comfortable to fish from. Of course, hull design lends a helping hand here and there are good cats and bad cats in this size range, not all of which exhibit the other characteristics which a skipper may want from their vessel. Access to machinery for service is my main priority, and it is unfortunate that many larger catamarans do not offer this characterisitic. That's my main bug bear.

But, to get back to a motor-sailing cat..... it has been a dream of mine for several years to design and build a small trailerable boat for the weekend warriors. Something capable of getting to the grounds with a single outboard, and then fishing under sail with a computer and some servos keeping the vessel at the required speed. This will entail a sharp learning curve for most fishermen and a change in tackle and attitude. But I think it can be done, as long as they're going to accept the fact that sailing is wet work and that a rope burn or the odd bodily blow to the head or other extremity is the norm, not the exception. Indeed, it is possible that some fishermen may take to the sailing aspect so well that fishing becomes less important, and vice-versa. The main problem to be overcome in the size vessel I have in mind will be one of security in the cockpit (fishermen like their gunwales) and security overall (wind versus multi-hull). Another option might be a tri-maran with telescopic hulls like the Windrider - we'd just need to work on the deck space... .

Of course, a hydro-foil boat may well offer the speeds to get to and from the grounds in certain conditions too.......

However, it's my gut instinct that a motor-sailing cat will not be the market leader in a world dominated by cash and oil. It's a lovely thought, and I'd be one to sign up for the campaign, but it won't happen. As others here have said, those with the money to buy the right boats and the fuel for them do not have the time or the inclination to wander the oceans, sipping cocktails as the shrouds creak. The Tara Vana is a boat designed to do that, and she does it in surroundings conducive to that atmosphere, with decidedly Pacific panache. I can't see it happening in the Mid Atlantic tournament out of Cape May (for example) with 200 - 300 boats leaving port at the same time, running 60 miles to the edge, and then running home again to weigh-in. Alas. It might happen in some parts of the world where wind is common and fish are close - the Cape Verdes, for example, or the Caribbean Islands or the Bahamas, and there may well be some people who will design and use a boat for the expedition fishing scene. But........

Much more common I think will be the ascendance of catamarans in general. As designs have improved and as the blinkered sportfishing world learns yearly, there are many great variations of cat design out there, and as oil prices soar I think we will see a real boom in the long thin displacement hulls so beloved by Crowther and Tennant, as are commonly seen down in the Pacific. As people start to realise the advantages these hulls give a catamaran then I think the trend for the wide-bodied planing and semi-planing hulls so common today in the US catamaran market will slow. This is the area I think we will see most improvements in, to the stage where people will buy boats that can give a distinct edge in economy while still offering competitive mid-20 knot cruise speeds. A vessel that offers all of the regular advantages of a catamaran such as stability, space and sea-worthiness and also combines that with a cruising range in excess of 600 miles at a decent speed and a fortnightly fuel fill at her fishing destination will become king.

We're almost halfway there already. If Dick Vermeulen's 47 foot craft up in Buzzards Bay (Maine) turns out the way the numbers are crunching, then we may have the first of a new breed coming down the line. Numbers ? How about 22,800 lbs of boat floating along at 21 knots for a range of 685 miles ? Or a displacement range of over 4000 miles at 8 knots ? Top speed of 24.5 knots for over 500 miles ?

What's more remarkable is that this vessel is powered with just a pair of 160hp common-rail diesels and only has a fuel capacity of 400 gallons. If I was still a charter operator I'd buy one in a heartbeat. Just think, in some places where the edge is just a mile from port, you'd fill up once a month !

My apologies for the long post. I'm not a boat designer, but I've sure fished a lot of different vessels, and although unqualified I hope you didn't get bored.

[juiceclark]

Tripped over this funky thing on YachtWorld...the 44' Lancer. You see so many downeast, lobster or picnic boats without a sail these days it's a surprise to see one. Moreover, this one is designed as a sportfishing boat with a big sail. Interesting how they ran the lines into the lower helm.

Cockpit is crappo...not very nice overall and there's no pic of the flybridge helm:
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...g_id=1033&url=

This one shows the hull design:
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...g_id=1768&url=

Sure is a mutt compared to the Alden Hawksbill.

[the1much]

i love sail boats,,,,,,,hate sailing,,,hate power boats,,like the ride though,,,,i think i might be able to handle a boat like that 1,,,,best of both worlds,,,,almost,,,,, hehe

[juiceclark]

Originally Posted by the1much

i love sail boats,,,,,,,hate sailing,,,hate power boats,,like the ride though,,,,i think i might be able to handle a boat like that 1,,,,best of both worlds,,,,almost,,,,, hehe

=================

Jim, I agree with all that. A 30+ knot sportfish never appealed to me...18k to 23k is just fine. I've spent a lot of $ on these machines and have no urge to slam them into seas until they unravel. Oil will likely be under $100 by this winter, but the desire for a boat that can do everything will never disappear.

Tell me something...on that first boat for sale, what the hell is that in picture #5? Is that some kind of heater or something?? Here's the link again:
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...g_id=1033&url=

[plankton]

Diesel heater.

[the1much]

haha,,,, looks like a mini stove wannabe,,hehe

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by juiceclark;219710Tell me something...on that first boat for sale, what the hell is that in picture #5? Is that some kind of heater or something?? Here's the link again:
[url

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatFullDetails.jsp?boat_id=1797638&checked_boats=1797638&ybw=&units=Feet&currency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=1033&url=[/url]

Propane Fireplace

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by Timm

The big problem with multihulls for fishing is the height of the cockpit and coamings. To wire a billfish, you need to be able to reach over the side and grab the bill. Traditionally this meant about 3' (.9m) of freeboard was the norm. With the tunnel height pushing the cockpit sole higher to avoid slamming, this makes it really hard to get low freeboard back aft in a cat....

That's the reason for this 'athwartships fishing deck' that can be lowered to more traditional level as fish gets closer to vessel:
But he also desires a relatively 'one level fishing deck' across the beam of the vessel. So here is a rough sketch of a modification to the 'elevating' fishing chair deck
http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/53496-post46.html