Future of Commercial Fishing?

[Guillermo]

Walrus, I think you are missing the point:

We, Galicians, were robbing as much as we could from the treasures that were being disembarked from the Spanish galeons, because of the threat of another anglo-dutch fleet, commanded by admiral Cloudesley Shovel.

Only the part of the Spanish King had been disembarked, following orders of the Queen María Luisa. We, Galician people, kept for ourselves a rewarding piece of it, by means of the sudden and inexplicable dissappearing of many the 1200 ox-carts in the Galician woods. (On his side, the french admiral Château-Renault became also inexplicably rich after taking care of the King of France's -The Sun King- part).

So, here we were, Galicians, anxiously waiting for the 'Council of Indies' permisssion to disembark the really big bunch of the treasures (corresponding to entrepreneurs, merchants, etc), to rob it too and so become really rich. The council designed Juan de Larrea to come to Vigo and decide what to do.

Galician people were so happy waiting for Larrea's decision, you know, when suddenly this guy, Rooke, who was obliged to retire from the siege to Cadiz (may his soul burns in hell! Why didn't he conquer Cadiz?), in his frustration decided to come after the Silver Fleet and enter Vigo Bay to perform such an unfriendly action against Galicians, sinking OUR treasure and taking away part of it. We have been diving for centuries to recover whatever possible! What a mess!

And he even was so incompetent to allow the 'Santo Cristo de Maracaibo', one of the richest galeons he was tugging off the Vigo's Bay, to sank with almost all its treasures in such deep waters that we have not been able to find it up to now! We were robbing so happily and nicely, and this guy came in and complicated everything. Blame on him!

So, do you understand now this Galician fishermen issue in UK waters....?

By the way, I still have a couple of millions in silver in my pocket right now, so you can come for them....

[longliner45]

OK I have an idea,,,,we can secure some prime time on tv wrestling and have a CAGE match with walruss and gilly...sell tickets ,,donate the proceeds and save the fish!,,,IM sencing some friction there,,,,,,,,im sure its all good!speaking of prceeds what does GreenPeace do with their money ! and I would like to here from one of them on this site.

[safewalrus]

Ah that Green Pea-ce soup, once it used to have only peas in it now it's full of dolphins and whales and other stuff!

Guillermo - ah now I've got it! What your saying is that ALL Galicians are nothing but a bunch of thieves (always were, are and will be!), would even steal from their own mothers and but for the fortitious arrival of an Anglo-Dutch fleet who they immediately blamed for their thieving ways and thus avoided the fate they so richly deserved, that of being hung as traitors by the divine King of Spain. You should be praising George Rooke and his fleet as saints, not condeming them! But that is what we have come to expect from the 'Dons' in general is it not.

Actually we already knew this; I was just trying to be nice to you - obviously a waste of time!

There are further platitudes I could continue with but I just can't be bothered!

BillyDoc wherever did you get the idea from that gilly and I were anything but good friends - we just wouldn't turn our backs on each other is all!

[Vega]

Originally Posted by safewalrus

As I've said before my view is that a widespread total ban of a particular style of gear/fishery is the only way forward! e.g. 'ban all nets from anywhere' one penalty only, any vessel found, at sea, with nets onboard is immediately scuttled, no matter the flag either carrying or scuttling. then we will get somewhere!

I agree with you.

I live near the 2nd biggest fishing port in Portugal (Peniche) and fishermen here have the opinion that the worst damage, by far, is done by trawlers dragging nets. Most of them are Spanish, even if nowadays you have also some Portuguese boats. I am sure that if they had the power they would forbid that kind of fishing, at least in coastal waters.

Here they fish mostly Sardines, and that is made with nets, but not dragging, they make a circle and close the net. That way they catch only what they have seen on the sonar, I mean only sardines of a certain size. They also use traps for octopus and "aparelhos" lines with a lot of hooks that also catch only what they are meant to catch.

[safewalrus]

Vega - Yes the Portugese are something completely different. Normally fish in the old ways because they like to! Also they realise that fishing goes on for ever and we/they must conserve the stocks! whilst I adovcate the banning of ALL nets (mainly dragged behind big noisy 'tractors' (well you can't call them boats can you?). There are certain species that cannot be caught (because of the size of their mouths etc) by line. The best of these are the Sardine/Pilchard/Anchovy/Whitebait - catching the whole school only in a seine is probably the only way to go - having said that obviously a close season needs to be tightly controlled!

And our Spanish 'friends' kept well away!

[Guillermo]

Gotcha! Am I feeling some lack of sense of humour?

[safewalrus]

Hey I'd even break my own rules to 'sort' a Spaniard

devious little buggers, as you've just proved

double gotcha

[longliner45]

just tried to contact greenpeace I couldent do it Im not to computer literate could one of you smart guys try it? longliner45

ecological practices at sea that I have personally witnessed, is by Scallop trawlers.

They basically need soft mud bottoms to trawl becuase that seems to be where the scallops congregate - to feed on all the deitrus (decaying weed etc) that settles in such area's - thus creating the soft ooze bottom. Prawns & other such species - likewise seem to like such bottoms.

Mrs troutys bottoms soft and oozy come to thik of it - but I don't like it much - maybe I'm not a scallop or prawn, but now I think about it maybe I'll find some there if i take the time to look - but i digress!

So - these Scallop trawlers - trawl the soft mud bottoms.

Trouble is - sometimes they don;t catch enough and sometimes - theres more trawlers / nets than there is soft mud bottom full of scallops.

But - these guys have a solution.

They act like farmers - and prepare (plow) "new ground".

Prepairing new ground is a euphemism...that "sounds politically acceptable" for:-

Destroying the coral habitat that existed there before!

Yes, Pair trawlers, drag heavey chain along between them - destroying every bit of coral growth that might in the future snag a net and stop them harvesting scallops. So - like farmers removing the rocks from their paddocks - they "prepair new ground - by destorying habitat that contains fish, lobsters and all sorts of other aquatic creatures, in order to make a new harvesting ground - available for next year.

Some of the scallop guys I know personally - actually have onshore aquacultuure facilities - where they breed scallop spat (juvenile scallop shell) and they then go and "seed" the new (and previously harvested) Scallop grounds.....ready to let them grow out and be harvested next year.

One family alone (with 3 boats) make about $5 million / per boat per year this way.

What "incentive" do they have NOT to destroy marine habitat?

I've seen them prepairing new ground in world heritage listed area's.

I've given details (times dates boat details etc) to the relevant Fisheries ministers..in person - only to see them roll their eyes - and do nothing.

One presumes, those who make such a kiling are large donors to both political parties - and to try and stop them would not be possible.

There will be no fish - greeneace or no greenpeace.

The Fiscal imperative ensures their demise.

Cheers!

[longliner45]

trouty;you seem well verst !it seems to be a 50-50 mix of guys that know whats going on ;(on this perticular tread),greenpeace seems to have deep pockets, I would like to here from them to see what thier input might be and or(what they have going onabout the plight of fisherman),,,,,,NOT TRYING TO LURE THEM IN FOR CRITISISME,,,,but for intellegent conversation. Longliner

I would say it should be possible to get at least a spokesperson for greenpeace to give us some input to the thread, surely a google search can turn up a contact to invite to participate?

Thats if Jeff agrees of course ( it is HIS site afterall).

Knowing whats going on is one thing, but it purtspeople in a difficult situation...spilling te beans is - in some cases a question of biting the hand that feeds you. You get this sort of info by working for the commercial fishing industry, because they do seem to make (and lose) large sums of money.

Even the pro fishermen can't agree among themselves over many issues...

For example - those who winge loudest about Scallop trawlers detroying coral by preparing new ground, are pro rock lobster fishers, who may have been setting a few pots on a small outcrop of coral for one or more generations - harvesting say .5 of a tonne of lobster from it - per year for the last 40 years.

Lets say they rock up at the beginning of the season ands go to drop the usual few pots - only to finsd the lump - "gone" vannished from their sounder altogether. They KNOW they are on the right spot - their GPS tells them so...

But - no lump - & hence no lobsters - now or forever more.

They get rightly cranky...

When it's a whole football field of coral lumps so dissapeared - they are downright angry enough to go sink a few Scallop Trawlers.

But,

How does anyone get the Pro Lobster people on side...

They can't support greenpeace - because likely - greenpeace probably have an ecological stance - whereby pro lobsters pots are blamed for decimating coral communities...dropping ballasted traps onto delicate stag horn coral lumps day in and day out eventually has to destroy them - flatten / wipe them out....even if they do to a small extent re grow when damaged.

In our state foe eample - 600 pro lobster fishers, setting and hauling an average of 100 traps a day, (60,000 pot sets a day) times an 8 months season..(say 260 days)...thats 15,600,000 pot sets a year.

What amount of cooral community damage is done by the pro lobster fleet?...in comparison - to the "preparing new ground" activities of the scallop trawlers?

(Or the prawn trawlers etc etc)...

Basically - it seems to me - that the sheer scale of almost ANY commercial fishing industy determines that it must be deleterious to the resource.

And don't for a minute believe that Fish farming is the solution!

Fish farming alone is probably the single WORST environmental risk for our oceans (with some reatively benign exceptions - pearl farming for example)

Tis a very difficult situation to even get a handle on.

I once led a campaign, of recreational anglers against the long lining of marlins. We used an email / computer campaign - and convinced the seafood purchasers of the two major supermaket chains in our nation to buoycott sales of marlin steaks - in order to try and decrease demand for this product and so convince the fishers not to target them deliberately.

It was successful insofar as it stopped the supermarket chains buying / onselling the product, BUT - basically the wholesalers just exported it...so the fishing effort continued unabated! It gets labelled as something else etc - theres ALWAYS someone in this world will buy seafood product.

I could even relate stories of guys who raided french territorial waters for Lobster and got away with many many $millions in just 6 weeks.

They got greedy and went back for a second helping and got caught! The French shot their boat out from under them (in international waters, while they were attempting to make a run for it).

They did time on Reunion island - before escaping.....on wind surfers, and meeting up with a trawler at a pre appointed time / place for the trip home - some of them are still wanted in French courts...

The international ocean are a big issue that we here on boat design.net won't fix with a short thread or two i fear.

And a few here probably owe their liveihoods to the commercial industries and vessels designed manufactirerd to service them.

I know for one - at times - my income has derived from the commercial sector in one way or another.

Cheers!

[longliner45]

trouty,,,,your right man

[Guillermo]

I may add that even long-lining may become a very bad thing, by killing turtles and other species, as well as overexploiting fisheries also.
Something like 25 years ago I went to Mexico (working for an Spanish well known boatyard, Rodman) to build, run and manage a boatyard in Puerto Morelos, close to Cancún. Some of the boats produced there went to a second firm, owned by the same investors, to form a fleet to fish (longlining) sharks in the Caribbean, as it was said to be a good business. Well, this fishing company was broken in two years because there were just not enough sharks in the Caribbean for an industrial exploitation! Japanese fleets regularly came and laid hundreds of kilometres of longlines, slaughtering sharks and other species, so populations were in a very bad situation. And there were not statistical data at all on this, becasause the Japanese fleets didn't release their catchs info.
So I think its is not a matter of the goodness or badness of a particular fishing system, but the use it is made of it.
Simply banning fishing or a particular method is a most difficult issue, because as was said by other posters here, there are too many commercial and political factors into it. So, on top of legislation, enforcing, etc., maybe the name of the game is education, education, education...?

[longliner45]

economics tends to take care of it , I loved making a living fishing,But if you cant make a profit ,you must leave. Also with all the natural disasters wiping out fishing fleets ,,(katrina),I enjoy talking to you guys about it,,,,,,,,even get carried away a little.I would like to think that those who were fisherman would solve it.but fishing has always been a cut throte game.and I think i did all I could do,....(.never wasted a fish ) tried to conserve stocks. but thers always that hungry mouth out there No easy money and no free ride(and no end in site) but I look back to my beautifull emerald coast now ther are no fleets of longline boats or any other for that maybe now the fish are getting that break they need!

[safewalrus]

Remember Gilly - you can't educate pork!

Or anything else that is not interested! Including pirates and freebooters and others of that ilk!