Floating Homes & Communities

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Bowcrest, Jan 26, 2011.

  1. Submarine Tom

    Submarine Tom Previous Member

    Bowcrest,

    Why do you "...battl[e] to introduce the concept of Floating Homes & Communities..." Shouldn't a good product sell itself?

    "...[it is] time we banded together to pool our resources and expertise with a view to changing perseption and attitudes to this whole concept." Interesting sales approach.

    You're awfully defensive and of poor grammar and speech for a mature man. Or, are these careless typos which reflect your cavalier manner?

    Human waste is relatively harmless when introduced in modest amounts into healthy, active sea water, but not when it is laced with pharmaceuticals as much of it is and in the volume you argue. Have you ever heard of endocrine disruptors? Nasty little fellows. One may argue water dwellers are more conscious about what they allow down the drain, but it only takes a few to spoil it for everyone. Why do you defend when you advocate pumping up to the 'big pipe' anyway? Confusing.

    If you truly seek a solution to your housing issue, look elsewhere. If you seek money, then carry on.

    Good luck.

    -Tom
     
  2. Bowcrest
    Joined: Jan 2011
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    Location: Dorset UK

    Bowcrest Junior Member

    But at least you looked, which you clearly had not before you expressed your opinions. I think we must agree to differ.
     
  3. Submarine Tom

    Submarine Tom Previous Member

    You are wrong my friend, I did not look, I didn't need to.

    We can agree to differ.

    -Tom
     
  4. Bowcrest
    Joined: Jan 2011
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    Location: Dorset UK

    Bowcrest Junior Member

    I had hoped that other folk on this forum who had an interest in living on water would be keen to exchange ideas. I had not realised that on a forum like this that people would take such offence.

    I'm not interested in selling the product to you or anyopne else. I'm interested to explore with other people who live aboard their houseboats how we can best change peoples ideas and perceptions - some of which have already been expressed here.

    I can't follow your thoughts on sewage - I was asked the question and I answered it. I'm not advocating any particular method of disposing of waste merely saying how it is achieved with the Floating Homes that we deal with. As for defending I merely stated what has traditonally occurred I neither said whether I agreed or disagreed I just stated the position.

    Poor typos yes I confess - probably but it happens. Cavalier attitude not sure where your coming from on that one.

    Never mind, maybe this was a bad idea thinking that folk who lived on Barges, Boats and Houseboats and often suffer due to prejudice might want to engage in discussion on the whole issue.
     
  5. yipster
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    Location: netherlands

    yipster designer

    hmm, i lived a few years on a big dutch barge in amsterdam on the river amstel in the sixties
    before staying with frends on a houseboat in sausolito and a decade back lived on a express cruiser in the med
    reading up a little its not only adam but sausolito as well that wants the houseboats organised or deleted
    my findings were its very well possible to live aboard but crawling aboard the barges frozen plank in the winter
    was not an easy entry, should be defrosted or so, climat plays a big part in boating anyway and when living aboard
    so does all or more than the comfort we have at home. i defenitly dont like the smell of rotting wood, tar or petrolium
    and you do want all facility's hooked up in a good marina that dont want barges and houseboats, hmm..
     
  6. Bowcrest
    Joined: Jan 2011
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    Location: Dorset UK

    Bowcrest Junior Member

    Absolutely right. Urban city councils such as Amsterdam Rotterdam etc. over the last 12 years or so have implemented a decree that if a Barge is sold off its mooring it can never return to the city unless only visiting. Everyone has to sign to that effect.

    I had a client once he was in his 80's and every day he used to strip off and swim in the canal even when nearly frozen. One occasion he did this and when he got out of the water he collapsed and froze to the deck. Fortuneately his 40 yr old girlfriend found him and defrosted him so he could go to hospital. He looked pretty good on it though.

    Modern day liveaboards on proper moorings are better served for access on etc. but what you remember about Dutch Barges is still true in many places.
     
  7. Bowcrest
    Joined: Jan 2011
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    Location: Dorset UK

    Bowcrest Junior Member

    That reply was addressed to Frosty with whom I have had some interesting exchanges and whose various comments I have attempted to answer - and failed it would appear.
     
  8. BATAAN
    Joined: Apr 2010
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    Location: USA

    BATAAN Senior Member

    In 1969 after getting out of 4 years USCG I bought a 22' steel lifeboat hull and two weeks and $300 later I had a houseboat, anchoring out in the wild and thriving Sausalito CA USA houseboat community, which at that insane time I can only describe as the Wild West, with hundreds of us young Vietnam vets, more girls, drugs, alcohol, rock and roll, and general mayhem. This did however, give us a good look at how things work living on the water since we did it for a long time on virtually no money.
    Now, 42 years later and most of it live-aboard houseboats, sailboats, forming a boat building co-op, building a 40' yawl, living in a co-op houseboat harbor for many years etc, I would like to comment.
    While cruising in our yawl BERTIE in Vancouver BC we found a very well designed cooperative houseboat community, particularly in the sewage and blackwater control, always the dagger any government entity holds over the existence of these groups anywhere.
    The whole thing was like an octopus, with a central "head" and finger piers radiating out. This shortened piping (and leaks) to a minimum. At the center was an octagonal cement barge, quite big, with a two story community center, laundromat etc.
    In the bilge was a large holding tank, with two powerful pumps, one vacuum connected to the pipes that went to the varied boats, and one that pumped effluent into the city sewer system. There was no smell. Houseboats on the docks, most on cement barges, hooked a simple automatic valve to the system, sailboats, of which there were quite a few, used their internal holding tanks, then used the handy vacuum hose right there at your berth when needed to empty it.
    When we built our harbor in California, I wish we'd had the foresight to use this simple foolproof system. Ours was the old "every boat has a pump forcing **** uphill" and always leaked. A vacuum system leaks IN not OUT. Small communities like this work if organized on a co-op model with meetings, responsibilities, and all.
     
  9. rwatson
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    Location: Tasmania,Australia

    rwatson Senior Member

    Hi Bowcrest and all - great comments, great debate. Enjoyed it immensely. Its great to get all sorts of input, good, bad, indifferent. Battans latest mention of the Vacuum sewer pump was very interesting I thought.

    I have no real expertise in floating communities, just a bit of reading over the years.

    Just a couple of 'non cantankerous' observations to throw into the pot.

    Have you noticed, that all the favourite city areas are the waterfronts:
    There seems to be some sort of ambience and enjoyment of areas that are harbours and docks - boats themselves seem to engender a sort of 'holiday' feel. Probably everyone in this forum has experienced this 'feel' about boats. It is certainly vastly better than some dreary 'burbs'.

    The problem of land to build on:
    Its getting very expensive !!! From being involved in my own small subdivision effort recently, I would put it down the to sheer cost of administration and provision of services - from power to sewerage, to transport to work (roads, bike paths) , fresh water, garbage collection. Its all so complex, and gets worse when the population is so dense.
    Lets not forget all that arable land that has been swallowed up by the urban backyard.

    Advances in Technology:
    Over the years, it appears that technology has provided us with some unique ways to improve our 'livingry' ( a Buckminster Fuller euphimism for housing and general day to day comforts of home). I went to a plumbing store this week to buy some replacement galvinised piping for an old shed - but I could only buy premade 1 metre sections. Couldnt even find a 'die' of the right size to thread up some steel pipe I already had. Its all plastic - with marvellous friction fit joiners at a fraction of the cost and much less weight than the old steel and bronze fittings.

    I am intrigued by the marvellous advances in boatbuilding - the epoxies and glass fibre, power generating gear, lightweight cooking appliances ( microwaves, gas), modern non rot textiles, LCD lights etc etc.

    Mobility of Shelter
    There is a huge demand for lightweight, easily moved, fairly self sufficient small "living modules". For the single person, older couples, mobile worker personnel - having a permanent but mobile 'living module' is a great way to solve the shelter problem. Some of these may float well on water, and be capable of energy production through solar cells, windvanes etc. If they are a source of recreation as well as a home - wonderfull. Mobile homes are another variation - with the ability to follow work, the seasons, explore etc.

    My feeling is that we should cater for the truly 'mobile living module', whatever its major physical characteristic - because of the lifestyle and flexibility of location advantages.

    But, as I and quite a few others have noted - there can be some serious problems if it is not done well.

    I look forward to reading about all future ideas and suggestions. Thanks everyone.
     
  10. Submarine Tom

    Submarine Tom Previous Member

    For the record, I do live aboard.

    -Tom
     
  11. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    Thats not the issue.
     
  12. ancient kayaker
    Joined: Aug 2006
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    ancient kayaker aka Terry Haines

    A home destroys the view, recreational facilities and environment wherever it is located, on land or water. There is a chronic shortage of land in England, but there seem to be underused waterways. The cost of land far outweighs the cost of the building, which is high enough due to outdated building codes. A boat is mobile, does not cause loss of farmland, does not require an access road and does not have to be built large enough to have multiple bedrooms in order to resell.

    Sewage can be addressed with the use of modern water-less closets. In competently managed countries such as the Netherlands these problems have long been faced, addressed and overcome. Perhaps it is time to drag the UK kicking and screaming into the 20th century - but one must be practical so don’t try to get them into the 21st. One problem that underlies this situation is, home cost have gone out of control in the UK and the land-rich who have paid through the nose and worked their butts off to get where they are don’t want an economic sub-class within view of their excessively expensive homes. One can understand that, but that attitude will lead to some nasty confrontations and social situations. What is the water being saved for anyway? People need a place to live.

    I don’t agree with the idea as it happens. But there’s a lot of misinformation in this thread, for example many toilets in basements - especially cottages where the septic tank can be higher than the building - have macerator pumps to force blackwater upwards.

    Marinas can have adequate facilities for laundry, personal cleanliness etc. The problem in the UK seems to be that - unlike Canada and the Netherlands - most of the underused inland water is in the form of canals and rivers rather than lakes, and the coast opens to rough seas without protection from offshore islands. The long shoreline will make it difficult to centralize facilities. It isn’t sufficient to merely build and sell houseboats, they have to have a place to go and something to support them when they get there. Attitudes will have to change before that will happen, but it cannot happen if the resources are not ther to begin with.

    BTW, it is not necessary to cast slurs on minorities such as gypsies to express an opinion on this topic. Neither is it appropriate to suggest - incorrectly - that the originator of this concept is somehow intellectually underprivileged because you don’t like his idea. If it comes to that, there are a lot of people who read and contribute to this forum and it’s not necessary to accuse them all of hardening of the mental arteries just because a small number have the effrontery to criticize your concept. Criticism tends to be negative, it’s a fact of social life that people who agree don’t bother to say so.
     
  13. Submarine Tom

    Submarine Tom Previous Member

    It certainly is not.

    -Tom
     
  14. rwatson
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    Location: Tasmania,Australia

    rwatson Senior Member

    Some good points here AK. The topic of mobile or waterborne living facilities, and/or alternate "shelter machinery" is progressing all the time. A couple of thoughts about your comments ...

    As far as the environment, many do, but not always. I am thinking of Yurts, Tepees and the like in years gone by, and in more recent times, Eco-Arcs built from re-cycled material in the deserts of the US. many buildings can enhance the environment by creating mini-oasis in an otherwise barren environment. Very few homes fail to increase recreational facilities - as the inhabitants are now able to live and play in the new homes.

    I would have thought there is still plenty of land in England - from the barren moors of central england, to the mountainous plains of scotland. There is fierce economic competition for serviced land near employment, but there are heaps of places where land and housing are cheap - but never near employment.

    Hmmm, I think you would be hard pressed to show me a mooring that is not at the end of an access road - for supplies of food, repair materials and connection to work and other facilities.

    Are you referring to composting toilets ? These are no preferred solution, because you still have to dispose of resulting compost, that is still capable of causing algal bloom if dumped in waterways. And, unless climatic conditions are good, they are expensive to run the evaporating fans, and very unpleasant to use, and a lot of work - and yoiu are talking to an experienced user about that.

    yes, isnt this always the way - those that have a "lifestyle" dont want to sacrifice 'amenity' to accomodate those annoying "have nots". "the Poor are Always with Us" as it says in the classics. Its a fact of life that many well off people owe their wealth to the efforts of the economically disadvantaged.

    True, it can be done, but all that requires power, which means money, and not to forget maintenance on the machinery which is a very inneficient way to live. People whio are looking for a mobile lifestyle tend to want to avoid expensive and complicated apparatus, including poo machines.


    Great to get your input on the topic, and your comments about being civilised in "conversation" are very welcome.
     

  15. Tad
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    Location: Flattop Islands

    Tad Boat Designer

    There seems to be several conversations going on here....one person is talking about permanently moored floating luxury condos while others are railing against gypsy caravans.........;)

    These thoughts and concerns are not specific to the UK.....they are an issue in developed or developing countries worldwide........If you price folks out of real estate (land bound housing) they will find alternatives......Those with large investments in the status-quo will object to these alternative solutions......people who live on the water are being demonized and marginalized everywhere....but they are organizing and pushing back......This is an education process....showing landowner's how we (the water people) have minimized our "footprint" to where our lifestyle ceases to be a drain on common resources...... and trying to show landowner's how big a drain their lifestyle is on common resources.....

    Any community....waterborne or landbound....needs to look forward......housing needs to become more multi-use and efficient......Home needs to be more than a place to store clothes and sleep......it needs to be a place of work, a place to grow/produce food, and a place that can generate the energy required to sustain it's inhabitants........Then the house becomes a place to live.........

    This is the type of waterborne house I grew up with......

    float_homes.jpg
     
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