flat bottom hulls

Ahh Paul............

you know, the lovesofa, and the like are all good for the same reason.

The longer they drivel, the better we look.

And although I understand your fury, If he would call my building methods faulty, I would be in the same rage, I think it is best to call him just on every post, call him what he is, a dumb nickle.

Regards
Richard

 

In wanting to join the discussion...all I can really say to these kinds of discussions(and there seem to be many and they are very interesting and helpful to varying degrees)...is that it seems......

.....it is Weather and skill/experience of the boat handler...that would seem to be the two greatest factors in a journey by boat...the choice/type of boat chosen by the boat handler is in third place here... especially when we know that boats as small as 5 feet or smaller have crossed the oceans...kayaks have made the journey...balsa log and bamboo rafts..etc...How can this be?

It seems to me at present that the individual and the weather are the biggest determiners of success.
Weather conditions are the next biggest variable IMHO..again..other than the experience of the individual at the outset..e.g. (do we make the trip..or not make the trip?"... or what type of boat the individual chooses as his mode of transport.
Weather knowledge and access to up-to-date meteorological conditions and one's ability to access accurate forecasts and also interpret conditions oneself seems the second factor that can entered into the" G.B.E. , yes...the elusive...much sought-after "General Boating Equation" .
It remains elusive to this day...It will always remain a unique equation that has it's own" boating genome" of features and factors...However fascinating the discussion of chines and rocker and flat-bottoms vs. v-hulls and double-enders vs. rafts....etc...they are a factor...but not until they are juxtaposed with weather and experience...experience determining what kind of boat and whether the boat ever leaves harbor. I guess what I am saying is you guys have entered the "Sea of Indeterminate Variables" here..or at least a Mid-Ocean Gyre". There is no "right" kind of ocean-going boat other than one that reaches it's captain's destination....now back to chines and rockers, dead-rise,tumblehome and so forth...please do carry on good gents and forgive my intrusion as I meant no real harm ....but as happens from time to time in my life I could not resist the pull of higher logic...

 

ok coming in from a day at the DMV getting some BS straightened out I have to admit they tested "my driving skills" rather than the ability of the POS truck I was taking for a test spin anyway. Point being to lend affirmation to the idea that its the operator that is responsible for operating in conditions favorable to the safety of the crew, passengers, and operating the proper vehicle for the conditions, not the vehicle that is in question. More so with a boat than with any other kind of transportation.

Im a little baffled what Loveofsea is on about, but his vague insinuations would likely piss off the pope. I tried to bring things back on track so we could ( ok selfish reasons ) I could learn a few things but since our original poster hasn't been in in a while and given the, frankly, wild accusations being made I'd like to see Loveofsea step up and explain himself a little clearer.

If your going to be making wild accusations in public you need to have the decency to at least be clear about it. Friend of mine with a boat load of folks (myself included ) out on lake Mconnahy a while back, just about got everyone killed with some seriously bad driving. Wasn't anyone's fault but his and at no point would I have even remotely considered the designer at fault. Not in a manor unlike to the film you depict as somehow representing one of the posters work ( I wont dignify the claim by including names )

frankly your interrupting what could have been a very informative thread with some obviously baseless accusations and personally Im looking forward to Monday morning at 9:00 am to see what you think is going to happen.

Around her if someone is obviously full of it they generally get called on it and since you ( loveofsea ) are not willing to make a clear and concise accusation then its getting more obvious by the moment that your just some thug spammer on a mission

honestly the threats of legal action are laughable

I dont think there is a business man out there who has not had some fool or another claim he is going to sue them

to bad
the thread does have some great info in it and it would have been nice to be able to soak up as much as possible about flat bottomed hull forms before I take the plunge myself. I was kinda hoping someone would ask this kind of question and now Ill just have to wait for it to pop up again.

best of luck everyone
B

 

Gentlemen:

GROW UP! How on earth can you take this seriously??

[I didn't want to have to do this PAR but you left me no choice. Since you chose to drop a dime on your cohorts Spencer and Tom, I'm going to have to insist that the three of you turn yourselves in to the authorities. Get your affairs in order gentlemen, you have until Monday morning at precisely 9AM to surrender. If you chose to flee from justice, the three of you will be pursued to the far corners of the earth for your crimes against humanity!

Watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFY9x...eature=related

The kid that was thrown overboard will be the prosecution's chief witness. ]

PAR is the only one here that is making accusations--everything that he has accused me of is either in this thread or the capsize thread. The onus is entirely on HIM to go back and copy and paste what he percieved to be an offense. If par is going to "haunt" me in this forum, he should be big enough to show everyone exactly what he is talking about, no?

Bring it on PAR, it's all still there! (or get over yourself~)

souljour, i agree with everything you have said and i will add another eliment if i may. Know the weather, know your boat, but in order to be successful at surviving alone in a small boat for days at a time, one must develope rituals and routiens and have the discipline to stick to them. Check your systems, monitor your parameters, be absolutely consistant in your log entries, fuel redistribution, stow the gear in the same place every time, etc, etc. You must know that you have the ability to run in virtually any sea conditions. You must have enough supplies to stay an extra day if you need to. You should have an alternate destination and know when to use that option, etc. (Winds can change dramatically in 20-30nm).

You must know your island topography, For instance, a few years ago i made the run to an island (78nm) the last sight i saw was the entrence of the breakwater. I went to the island, spent the night and returned home the next day--the only thing i saw the whole trip was the end of the breakwater leaving and the end of the breakwater coming back, never saw the island--socked in fog the whole time I don't mind admitting that it was a challenge. But since i knew the island, i knew where the breaks were and had no problems skirting the hazards. Sometimes bad weather (shifting winds) will chase you around an island- sometimes you will just get stuck exposed to the wind and seas for the night. Be prepared to deal with that. A few years ago, i came around the island and the wind picked up to a full gale--made my way up the back side a few miles to my favorite anchorage and was pinned to the anchor for the next 40 hours :!: -- 8-10ft seas with spindrift 200 yards away... That, gentlemen is desolation--you aren't going ANYWHERE and no other boats will be anywhere for many miles...I loved every minute of it. When the wind blows a gale all night and you have to go home the next morning, it used to make me nervous through the night wondering what the morning will bring, no longer--i just fasten the velcro around the wrist and ankles, grab the tiller and proceed to tear it up for the next 3-4 hours

"There is nothing like the feeling of utter security on a tumultuous sea"

 

loveofsea you might like to study the boats ray hunt designed for speed at sea, & also the wartime fast motorboats from many nations

 

Right,

sorry for throwing you in the same pot! I deleted it, so should you, to lead to a constructive discourse.

 

Here,here for constructive discourse..let us take our personal feuds elsewhere...I think you are both on opposite coasts ..so ...so much for a quick duel at 30 paces...my money would be on PAR btw...but alas...can you guys duke this one out in private posts perhaps..it's getting old...PAR..I think Loveofsea did at least apologize in a fairly manly straightforward fashion...'nuff said? or nuff said on this thread.?..The Roman Coliseum...The Circus Maximus...Madison square garden...Roman forum...the St Petersburg,Fla Forum...but not this forum any longer...please...

 

Richard,
Now you not only look better , you look marvelous .

Frank

 

Pic of the skiff

Here is a picture of my bed in the bow of the skiff. This picture was taken a hundred miles off the California coast at a place called the Cortes bank.

Here is a link to a map of the bight.

http://www.diveboat.com/map_of_great_escape_dive_destinations.shtml

I leave from the San Pedro area mainland and make my way around the east end of Catalina, west end of San Clemente, then 45nm out to that incredible submerged mountain top known as the Cortes Bank--the last kelp forest between here and Hawaii.

 

It seams that a lot of people want to take an English barge up rivers and then across the Atlantic. I this a Euro thing ?

It seams akin to taking a New haven sharpie across to England .

I have seen pictures of a barge that did some ocean cruising , maybe some one will remember it .

Frank

 

I've seen pictures of you boat before . Its an Oregon dory ,No?

 

To be honest Frank i don't know what an Oregon dory looks like. My skiff is definately a dory, but i don't know which style it would be. The width of the bottom and two internal bulkheads were determined by the width and length of 3 nesting fuel tanks (two 12 gallon low profile poly tanks with a wedged shape 6 gal. in the middle ) The bottom length was determined by the 6" scarf splice of two 5'X9'X 3/4" sheets of marine plywood, end to end = 17.5'. The width of the transom was determined by the amount of give and lift i wanted in the hull--it was a wild guess @ 8" narrower than the widest point of the bottom. Lucky guess The angle of the bow stem was determined by making the overall length precisely 19'. The flair at the widest point was determined by the natural bend of the mahogany rail logs from the bowstem to the transom which was set at 10 degrees, 12.5 at the widest point and 20 degrees at the bow.

One dimension follows another...

 

http://ic2.pbase.com/o4/16/48416/1/60791138._DSC2689.jpg

 

Good pictures frank~

The first and third pictures were nice boats for sure~

but here i go again...


i have a huge problem with the boat in the second picture. The man at the helm cannot see over the bow, angle to the horizon notwithstanding. To me that is a design flaw that could easily have fatal consequences. Perhaps the people in that boat only go a few miles offshore, so it may not be such a problem. But from my perspective, i don't understand how anyone could tolerate the obstruction of your fwd view by the boat itself???

Coming home from my last trip, i ran right next to a log that was 10ft long and 2 and a half feet in diameter. i saw it straight off the bow---that log would not have been visible from the helm of the boat in the second picture.

then again, i'm nit-picking...

except for one thing...

reality

It's all about getting home when you least expect the seas around you...