FL built one off steel trawler??

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by pha7env, Mar 6, 2014.

  1. pha7env
    Joined: Aug 2011
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    Location: Lake Dannelly, Alabama River

    pha7env Junior Member

    David, Titles are for title lawyers, title companies and title insurance. . Although, my limited understanding of FL title law is that a boat is titled like a car, and sales are state recorded and there is limited area for clouded title.Anyway, that is a fight for another day. Now is the time to find if the boat was built according to design, and was designed to do what i need for it to do safely and effectively.

    Sam, this is a specific boat designed for the owner. I challenge you to find another one like it on the planet. It would sure be easier on me if it weren't a one off.

    Philsweet, I like the way you are thinking, and i already have a reputable broker on board. And,

    The foremost hope for posting about it hear, was to get a lead on the NA that might have designed it. The second was to get any off the cuff comments on design that might lead me to see something i have not seen that would raise a flag and save me time and money. The third was, in lieu of finding the original designer, for y'all to help me find an NA, that liked and was familiar with steel trawler/sail, that would work with me to get the answers i need.
    The boat is in Clewiston, FL
     
  2. pha7env
    Joined: Aug 2011
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    Location: Lake Dannelly, Alabama River

    pha7env Junior Member

    Steve, this is a take from RegistrationHull # FLZW 4653H797
    Title # 2051416
    Title Issued 08/13/97
    FL# FL4753KJ
    First registration 07/24/97

    Don't know it it was registered first or last of build. Know it has been dry for about 6 years and sat in his inland slip in his yard with him working on the interior in between. I re-read the post, and it sounds like the owner has not been forthcoming at all about many things. In reality, he has answered every question i have asked, short of the name of the NA. I only asked him where and not who built the hull, but will as soon as he is out of hospital(back surgery). His good friend is the electrician, and the one that will open the boat up for showing. He broker friend that has offered to find a surveyor if i can not, and every technical question has come easily. I have pushed him to name names and let me deal with the consequences. thanks! robert
     
  3. philSweet
    Joined: May 2008
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    Location: Beaufort, SC and H'ville, NC

    philSweet Senior Member

    Not knowing who the NA is will only become a problem if and when the OP tries to sell the thing. Right now, it is the current owner's problem.

    Authenticity and provenance are the sellers problem when there isn't any. They only become the buyers problem when the seller claims such things. Then the buyer has to figure out if the claims are genuine.

    This is a fifty footer. For ten grand, you can have a parade of pros go though it with a fine tooth comb and you will know as much about it as the NA. And you may need to do this in any event if the boat has been outside for years and the owner has been absent for years. Home builders are often a lot more conscientious about providing access to inspect stuff and installing interiors that can be unbuilt.

    The thing is, you don't want to know the NA when you buy it. You want to know the NA when you sell it. Try to stay out of the drama and let the broker do his thing. Maybe he will stumble across the origins of the boat. He's in a better position to learn this stuff anyway.

    I smell an upside to all this. It's just the sort of thing I'd work at. You as a buyer can't pull this train along, but you can inspect the tracks ahead of it.

    One question you might ask your broker is whether or not the current owner was the person who commissioned the NA and began the build. Or did the current owner take possession of a partial hull from someone else who may have walked away from the build. It doesn't really matter to you, but it would be interesting to know. It's a possible source of contention between the seller and the NA.

    And for heaven's sake, find your own surveyor. Don't use anyone the seller mentions.
     
  4. pha7env
    Joined: Aug 2011
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    Location: Lake Dannelly, Alabama River

    pha7env Junior Member

    I may have misled. The broker that i will use down there is a friend that will help with transaction as buyer broker, just to help me. The boat is not listed and i have been the only one, so far, dealing with the owner. The hull was commissioned by the owner. It is a one owner with receipts for everything including the the completely remanned engines and transmission, the all other new equip, even the certification on the steel. His intent was a shallow draft(tunnel props and integral tankage) boat that can be used trawler style or carry a mast as motorsailer. To use rear mast as steadying rig, but have the design to carry fish if necessary or preferred. Claimed to be designed to be self righting in a knockdown, have a minimum of 4000 mile range at 8 knots.
     
  5. brian eiland
    Joined: Jun 2002
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    Location: St Augustine Fl, Thailand

    brian eiland Senior Member

    Is she single or twin prop? Do you have a couple of drawings or portions of that you could post?...perhaps someone might recoqnize the 'style' of the drawings by some NA's.

    You might also try posting on a few other forums as well...perhaps the Trawler forums and Yachtforums??
     
  6. pha7env
    Joined: Aug 2011
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    Location: Lake Dannelly, Alabama River

    pha7env Junior Member

    Lines and tanks plan

    attached are partial lines and tanks drawings. I have an interior drawing that i am not posting, but can if that will be helpful. Also, the picture shows the twin tunnel props. They are driven by twin 87 hp Mercedes 300s. Something seemingly unique, at least to me, to this vessel is the hull tank closed cooling system instead of the usual keep piping. Also the multiple hull tanks are each separately managed where empty tanks can be flooded for ballast if necessary during heavy storms. Let me know if the interior will help, and ask any questions that you may. And, as for the aft transom door entering the mastor salon. It is a 5 dogged, from inside, water tight marine door, and has 1/2 safety glass in all aft windows.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. pha7env
    Joined: Aug 2011
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    Location: Lake Dannelly, Alabama River

    pha7env Junior Member

    i have a number of the acad drawings if anyone would like to give comment of ask related questions. I have been assured that they are legally obtained and given permission to gather comment. I would love if someone on this forum, and familiar with steel, was located near the boat for a hired review and consult.
     
  8. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    >What's a set of plans for a boat like that cost?<

    STOCK plans are usually not all that expensive , a few Hundred to a few Thousand , depending on how much is planned.

    Just a hull is not expensive , PH detail, cabin detail , tankage , engine install , wiring and the rest are included it gets expensive.

    VERY !!! expensive is custom plans for a custom 1 off boat.

    If done with the required detail to build, most NA will demand a percentage of the cost of the completed vessel, and of course they all attempt to price as if Amberking & Rassmusen were the builder, not Joes Welding in Miami!!

    AS always the big $$$$ fights start with the simplest change.
     
  9. pha7env
    Joined: Aug 2011
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    Location: Lake Dannelly, Alabama River

    pha7env Junior Member

    Pretty sure that is what happened to make this relationship(owner vs designer) head south. The owner said that he bought the plans to hull outright, or so he thought, then into the build, well, you said it. That's just one side or course. Or as us rednecks say, "mine don't stink". Who knows. I do know the more i find out about this boat, the neater it seems to be. Well thought out and outfitted for passagemaking. The hull, to me and one NA that has looked at it seems a worthy design. It is looking like it might be worth a look see. I am a welder/carpenter and can inspect welding and quality of build. Still, at some point, would get official survey or course. As i said, i would love to find a NA familiar with steel to look at the plans and the boat. I misspoke this morning when i said i could post the plans. The owner emailed me and asked not to share with "un-controlled third parties". I guess because it is the only one of it's kind, he does not want to let his plans spread across the internet. But, i can share with those who i have a "working" relationship, which means those private parties that agree not to disclose and are helping me with the decisions regarding this boat. If any of you would like to officailly advise me, please mail me at pha7env@yahoo.com. And Fred, i have seen no plans for the engine set, other than the integral tank plans. And i have seen no schematic on electrical, although the person looking after the boat for him is a marine electrician and did all the wiring. From the looks of pix, the fact that 12 and 120 volt systems, with battery bank and inverter seem to be arraged professionally throughout the boat. Could be a mess, but does not appear to be. Plumbing the same. It appears that the plans included hull, deck, interior layout, deck layout, keel design, ect., It appears down to the location of cabinetry, seating, ect. Could be more. The owner discloses more as we get further into our relationship. Thanks! robert
     
  10. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    You might considering hiring a NA for a quick look see.

    Sure you can use Skeens to figure if the shaft size is ok , and the rudder stock heavy enough , but a PRO will only need a glance to see what if anything Scares him.
     
  11. pha7env
    Joined: Aug 2011
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    Location: Lake Dannelly, Alabama River

    pha7env Junior Member

    Would be glad to hire someone to take a look see if i could find someone local to South FL. Haven't had anyone come forward or any recomendations yet, and this i like the info that you guys put forth better than google search! (usually)lol
    I am familiar with complete surveys, by surveyors and what they cost, but am not familiar with what something like this should cost either??

    Robert Jones
    Camden, AL
    pha7env@yahoo.com
     
  12. april15th
    Joined: Feb 2013
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    Location: Florida

    april15th Junior Member


  13. pha7env
    Joined: Aug 2011
    Posts: 90
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    Location: Lake Dannelly, Alabama River

    pha7env Junior Member

    Thank you, i will see if he is interested in giving a look! thanks!!
     
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