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  #1  
Old 07-20-2013, 02:43 PM
Ceejay Ceejay is offline
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Fiberglass replica of 1939 barrel back ?

Hi all,

I just wanted to find out if the boating world may be interested in fiber glass replicas of a 1939 Chris Craft custom barrel back.

The entire bout would be constructed out of fiberglass to a very high standard, the deck could be over laid in wood and varnished. It would have all the nice shiny hardware and trim, fittings..

How about powering it with a mercruiser stern drive ?

Nice plush wood and leather interior with nice period style gauges and steering wheel ?

A boat with a classic design and character, modern performance and reliability with the ease of maintenance of the engine and drive and ease of maintenance of the hull... What do you guys think of this idea ?

If it were available at a much lower price than the originals and wooden replicas, would the classic boat enthusiasts who want something easy to maintain, be interested in buying one ?

Last edited by Ceejay : 07-20-2013 at 02:44 PM. Reason: Additional information
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  #2  
Old 07-20-2013, 03:41 PM
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gonzo gonzo is offline
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These are a couple of companies already doing that:
http://classicmarine.homestead.com/aboutus.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQyfDbVCqXc
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  #3  
Old 07-21-2013, 01:13 AM
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Welcome to the forum.

Market research is fairly easy, though not as easy as posting a question on discussion forum.

Lets look at the market you're targeting, classic wooden runabouts. What portion of the pleasure boat market would you think this represents? 10% would be a very generous suggestion, with less then 5% also being kind. I'll bet less then half of these buyers, will be interested in a 'glass version of a wooden runabout. So, you're looking to sell "faux" wooden runabouts, with less than 2.5% of the pleasure boat market's potential interest.

Might I suggest some divestiture, for this business model to prosper.
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Old 07-21-2013, 01:35 AM
Ceejay Ceejay is offline
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Many thanks for the input all.

I did search online with many combinations of key words like wood, wooden, classic, vintage, antique, boat runabout, barrel back, replica, look alike fiberglass etc but didnot find anything similar to what I propose to do.

Thanks for those links Gonzo. My search did not bring those up either.

I would be looking at producing something as well built and finished as the classic marine boats but with the "barrel stern" of a 1939/40 chris craft custom.

The classic marine boats are supposed to be very expensive. Probably minimum $60,000 ? I would be able to do the same thing at around half that price due to much lower labor costs in my country and not having big overheads to cover.

Elite Craft boats are apparently no longer produced.

I am not looking to sell them in large numbers. Probably looking to produce on and sell it before producing another. More along the lines of a hobby than a business really.

I would really appreciate your input about using a stern drive set up to power such a craft. Something close to 300HP perhaps ?

Rather than cut up an original 19' custom barrel back, I could consider building a 20' version using the plans available and using that hull to take the moulds off.

Would the hull need steps or strakes or some sort of "V" formation towards the stern ?

Thanks for your input
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  #5  
Old 07-21-2013, 02:38 AM
tunnels tunnels is offline
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you need to keep searching !! there is some one that done a replica of a Chris craft but changed the bottom for more modern thinking and better riding with a better dead rise , still looks the same as was above the waterline . If you just make the hull to the frame stage and sheath it with foam core and glass it from there you could have yourself a glass boat not as a throw away but cored and glass inside and out . there are look alike wood veils printed on glass cloth that you could look at as imitation wood planking for just about the whole boat and have no wood at all in its total construction any where .
There's even guys building glass hulls with a wood veneer epoxied on the outside !! . I love the old woodies because they are nice shape and have a air of distinction like no other boats have !
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Old 07-21-2013, 02:42 AM
Ceejay Ceejay is offline
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Tunnels thank you for your input and valuable information that I did not know before about the readily available options to give glass the wood effect
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Old 07-21-2013, 02:51 AM
tunnels tunnels is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceejay View Post
Tunnels thank you for your input and valuable information that I did not know before about the readily available options to give glass the wood effect
Glass veils have been round and what Noah used on the ark . There's a really big selection these days and yes well worth a serious look at. wood is nice but the up keep is something else .
one composite show I went to in shanghai 2011 the guy was boasting 300 different patterns he had not only wood but stone and marble and glittery things you name it they had it .
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Old 07-21-2013, 03:07 AM
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This has been tried previously, though as a business, not as a hobby. Veneering a 'glass hull doesn't make a lot of sense, particularly with printed veils and other wood graining techniques available, all of which are much more durable and have much less maintenance, then a veneered boat.

An outdrive is an option, but would prove difficult to engineer under a small barrel back. Where would the drive leg go in the up position? On a 30' runabout, you could have the drive under the barrel, but not a 20'. A jet drive would solve this issue, as would a conventional shaft.

Lastly, you'd be wise to have the hull redesigned to retain the styling clues from the era you like, but work efficiently and safely at the speeds, a new drive train can offer. The old 20's and 30's classics had pretty crappy hulls, once they got over 35 to 40 MPH. They had longitudinal stability issues and other concerns, which would rear up exponentially if a modern drive setup, with much higher weight to power ratio was available. Boats like this currently exist (modern under belly, modern drive, classic topside styling), so the very small market, would be relatively crowded with another entry, especially in the economically wanting times we have currently.

As far as potential interest, the internet isn't going to tell you much, except what has already happened.
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  #9  
Old 07-21-2013, 03:35 AM
tunnels tunnels is offline
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Mercruiser stern drives are not a problem as the motors can be mounted way forward of the unit with a long drive shaft and exhaust going to the stern drive have already talked about this a few months back !
Has anyone even given any thought to the ips or some of those types of drives !! not a silly idea !!
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  #10  
Old 07-21-2013, 06:13 AM
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Eric Sponberg Eric Sponberg is offline
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I designed the Cherubini Classic 20 which is exactly as you describe. It is fiberglass construction entirely with a wood overlay deck and wood trim. You can see the boat listed on Cherubini's website. From the 20'er, they extended the design to a 24'er. You can see both here:

Cherubini 20 and 24: http://www.cherubiniyachts.com/20.html

Fom the 24'er, Cherubini also developed the 255 sport cruiser: http://www.cherubiniyachts.com/255-SC.html

These boats are built to a very high quality. They are expensive as a result, and so production numbers are low.

For a description of my design work on the 20'er, see the page on my website: http://www.sponbergyachtdesign.com/CC20.htm

And for the story about how the hull was stretched for the 24'er, that story is there too: http://www.sponbergyachtdesign.com/CC24.htm

So there is a tiny market out there. These designs have been around for awhile.

Eic
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  #11  
Old 07-21-2013, 08:50 AM
Ceejay Ceejay is offline
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Thank you very much for your input Eric ! An honor to have the designer of the Chrubini boat, commenting.

A sheer coincidence that you happened to comment, as I had found your web site and the site of Cherubuni yachts through yours a little while befor you posted and I was going through your web sites with great interest.

I was very excited to see the integration of stern drive as well as to note that the boat has a modern bottom design which no doubt makes it handle very well when under way.

Those are lovely boats but as you say, they are very very expensive. If that was built in my country it could be finished at a fraction of that price because the labor is so inexpensive, we have very highly skilled craftsmen in fiberglass, interior upholstery work, carpentry etc and we do not have any waste disposal laws etc. Although chemical waste is disposed of in a responsible manner, there are no laws which govern it and add to the costs...
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  #12  
Old 07-21-2013, 10:24 AM
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Eric Sponberg Eric Sponberg is offline
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Ceejay, Glad you like my work. The CC20 originally started out with the Mercury Sport Jet engine and jet pump, which is a gasoling outboard powerhead mounted on top of a jet. That met with mixed acceptance. Some people loved the jet, but about the same amount (the motorheads!) hated it. Then the boaters on one of the New England inland lakes asked for the I/O drive, because that's about all they run up there, except for the well-known inboard classics boaters, but contemporary buyers really wanted the I/O. That's what Cherubini has been building ever since.

We had always intended to do an inboard installation with a V-drive, but very few people ask for that, surprisingly, so it has never been tooled up for that.

The other designs that I have done, the Saetta Classic 20 and the Chris Craft Cobra 21 redesign, are both straight inboards. I have also done the hull lines f another custom 24'er and for a custom 33'er. All of these designs sport a very similar bottom shape to the Cherubini boats which is what I think gives these boats their superior ride which is fast, very smooth, quite comfortable through waves, and very stable in turns.

Yes, manufacturing costs here in the US are quite high because of the rates that we pay our labor. Also, there are overhead charges, which up north include high rates for heating and taxes. Down south here, labor and tax overhead are cheaper, although still high compared to your country, I'm sure. Building boats successfully and selling them also depends on good marketing and quality control.

I know that owners of superyachts (100'+) have had a desire for classic-styled runabouts that are low maintenance and also low cost. But in my experience, they want a design right now, not later, and it has to fit in the garage that's already built into the yacht (i.e. customized design because every yacht and its garage are different). And, they aren't necessarily willing to pay for design costs to get a custom-built boat to fit into their yacht, nor wait for the boat to be built. So that's a really tough market to crack--you almost have to have the perfect boat for the perfect fit at exactly the right time and in the right place!

'Twas ever thus!

Eric
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  #13  
Old 07-21-2013, 10:55 AM
michael pierzga michael pierzga is offline
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Then problem with those runabout type boats is that they are only effective on lakes and sheltered water.

A mate of mine has a Riva. On a nice day you must wear foul weather gear because the boat is so wet in a sloppy sea.

I wouldnt have one as a yacht tender... there are better designs around
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Old 07-21-2013, 11:36 AM
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Eric Sponberg Eric Sponberg is offline
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The vast majority of the original classic runabout designs were all lake boats and sheltered water boats. And when you think of it, yacht tenders are also used primarily in sheltered waters from anchorages to shore, not necessarily for galavanting around on the open ocean. Lots of different boats get wet on sloppy seas, so I don't think that is really a valid criticism. The purpose of classically styled modern boats, really, is to evoke a style from 80-100 years ago, and the better boats will have better bottom shape and structural design, and better engines and equipment to meet modern tastes and needs.

Eric
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  #15  
Old 07-21-2013, 11:52 AM
michael pierzga michael pierzga is offline
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Of course. But important to realize the classic runabouts limitations when doing marketing research.
Some people love those classic runabouts.

I would do my marketing research around lakes or traditional runabout areas..

Build your boat to a very high standard. Runabout connoisseurs value attention to detail.

Research Swiss, Austrian and German lake boats such as
http://www.frauscherboats.com/en/pro...s/606-riviera/ for detailing ideas

Diesel electric for lake operation could be a winner
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