FBYD 58ft - an example of concept yacht hull lines

[yades]

Hi all,

I'd like to share with the community a good example of a recent hull sailing yacht which I developed in almost all parts represented, including lines plan in the three basic views, hydrostatic calculation and Polar Diagram for Velocity Performance Prediction. I have also added some very basic hull renderings obtained via use of Maxsurf and Rhino.
Other technical infos including ratios, technical parameters for general discussion, STIX number for stability appraisal, resistance calc's, etc..... could be posted on this forum should it be of any further interest to anyone. I personally believed the core business of a Yacht Designer is still the set up and calculations of a yacht's lines plan and in that respect I dont see much of this "stuff" around on any YD Forum, with attached calculations and relevant technical comments whatsoever. Why??? Everybody so gelous of his work??? If you know well the subject and if you have a good eye on the lines plan drawing is not that easy to get some one to reproducing it without authorisation.....faked are always spotted......hence no reason to fear ....I hope to see other lines plan on this net ....soon.. ....would be nice to discuss trends...ideas....and so forth.....
The attached examples I believed it could be of interest to some Yacht Designer (well established or not does not matter...)
(......"what is perhaps most exciting is that we can still as individuals make these valuable technical contributions".......by Renato "Sonny" Levi - 'From Dhows to Deltas'........)

Any comments or enriching speculations on the subject are most welcomed

Here's the first set of drawings

[yades]

Originally Posted by yades

Hi all,

I'd like to share with the community a good example of a recent hull sailing yacht which I developed in almost all parts represented, including lines plan in the three basic views, hydrostatic calculation and Polar Diagram for Velocity Performance Prediction. I have also added some very basic hull renderings obtained via use of Maxsurf and Rhino.
Other technical infos including ratios, technical parameters for general discussion, STIX number for stability appraisal, resistance calc's, etc..... could be posted on this forum should it be of any further interest to anyone. I personally believed the core business of a Yacht Designer is still the set up and calculations of a yacht's lines plan and in that respect I dont see much of this "stuff" around on any YD Forum, with attached calculations and relevant technical comments whatsoever. Why??? Everybody so gelous of his work??? If you know well the subject and if you have a good eye on the lines plan drawing is not that easy to get some one to reproducing it without authorisation.....faked are always spotted......hence no reason to fear ....I hope to see other lines plan on this net ....soon.. ....would be nice to discuss trends...ideas....and so forth.....
The attached examples I believed it could be of interest to some Yacht Designer (well established or not does not matter...)
(......"what is perhaps most exciting is that we can still as individuals make these valuable technical contributions".......by Renato "Sonny" Levi - 'From Dhows to Deltas'........)

Any comments or enriching speculations on the subject are most welcomed

Here's the first set of drawings

Here's the second set of drawings

[yades]

Originally Posted by yades

Here's the second set of drawings

Here's is the last set of drawings attached

[yades]

dont see much of a reaction on the subject as proposed...despite more then 600 views on the thread...... would be nice to read some reactions or view some proposals (lines plan, general drawings...and so and so forth...)

any one willing to contribute on the subject

sincereley

yades

[hbr]

what are the dimensions of this yacht ?

[hbr]

since you like to provide more information, can you provide the weight calculation info,
seems to be cruiser with a fixed keel, what about the main characteristics
loa, lwl, D,T, freeboard ....

[Tad]

Yades,

I agree with what you say, that there is very little in the way of "real" design represented on this or any forum. Few actual working designers visit or post here; the most prolific posters have no design work of their own, but just want to talk. One of the very few who do post real design drawings in the gallery here is Yves-Marie Tanton. All would do well to study his drawings.

What are usually presented here are nice renderings of boat-shaped objects. These are not boat designs, though the authors claim they are. Software sellers tell a person that creating a few surfaces and coloring them nicely is “designing a yacht". Well, it isn’t, eventually most realize no one is going to pay them big bucks for surface renderings and drift away.

I disagree that a yacht designer’s primary job is the creation of hull lines. His or her primary job is to create a build able, beautiful, useful, comfortable, and safe vessel. (Oh ya...it's got to be within budget as well!) The integration of performance, structure, hydrostatics, and art is your primary function as a yacht designer. Hull lines are very important, but integrating them with a decent structure and arrangement is the tricky part.

Long ago I was taught that there are four key drawings (plus calculations) required to define a vessel, that has not changed even though we have moved to 3D representation. The outboard profile, deck plan, and interior arrangement is one of these drawings. This is usually covered by a 3D model now. But beyond that is, as you say, the hull and deck lines drawing. This must accurately represent the required hydrostatic characteristics of the vessel, not just be "boat shaped" as many seem to think. The final two drawings cover the construction of the vessel. There must be a general construction drawing giving an inboard elevation, and deck and bottom framing plans. The final drawing is the construction/joiner section drawing, with a number of sections through the boat illustrating how it all goes together, what the materials are, and how they are sized and joined.

While modern design offices are fond of breaking these four drawings down into booklets of smaller drawings each illustrating one facet of the boat. These four still cover all the basics. I think I could count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I've seen a real construction drawing posted, apparently they require quite a bit of labor and aren't very sexy at all.

All the best, Tad

[Willallison]

Yep - what Tad said....

As one who has posted all of the drawings that Tad has mentioned over the years that I've been lurking about here, I too think it would be nice to see more real design represented. The Option One thread had the potential to deliver just this, but sadly interest seems to have dried up, just when when the project was reaching the point where some real documentation might have emerged, which is not entirely surprising.
But then we can't really expect to see truly complete sets of drawings, posted for any and all to use as their own. Above all else, designers must make a living from their work.

[tom28571]

Tad, Will, yades

All true. I share Tad's opinion of many computer renderings presented as "designs" on the forums. That takes nothing away from such renderings that are the result of rather than the whole content of a design. Yades offering appears to be be in the later group.

Will, I thought the Option one thread dwindled because, after many had posted their preferences for the design, there was no real consensus on the direction the design should take. Some tried to make a list of common objectives but I don't think there was enough consensus to move forward. That was true of me and I suspect the same is true of the other regulars on that project. Being a bit stubborn, I know I was still largely unswayed from my original thoughts on what a good small power cruiser should be. I still think it was a useful exercise in allowing us to look at other mostly amateur designers thoughts.

A committee designed object is almost always less successful in most every way than the product of one or two people.

[bhnautika]

Yades I think there’s more than enough info in fact there’s to much, you lose the gaussian plot and move the lines windows around so they are not partially obscured by the hydrostatics output window I would like to have seen the wl’s aft. The numbers seem to be good for this type of boat Cp .56, L/ C of B 54,3%, SA/Ws 2.4. A VCG .120mm above WL is a good starting point .Ok there is no inboard profile or sections but the freeboard of around 1.8 m, headroom shouldn’t be an issue. Overall a nice boat for the cruiser /racer set I would like to see the headroom in the aft cabin in relation to the cockpit sole height, the passage way under the bridge deck is no problem but the area under the sole? The displacement of 20t seems build able. I never comment on styling as it’s a personal choice but I think some form of rear boarding access may be worth considering for this style of boat. One other thing with such a wide stern I would like to see the relationship between heel angle and trim.

[Willallison]

Tom - yes - you're probably right: at the end of the day O-1 was unlikely to be a boat that suited the needs or desires of any of the contributors, though it surely had the potential to suit many others. As designers, of course, we would often be called upon to come up with designs that we'd never want for ourselves - your own 'heavier' 28(?) footer is a prime example; similar to the BJ24, but with a slightly different set of goals.

Yades, I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to achieve with this thread.... are you after a review of your design, or are you trying to encourage others to post more meaningful examples of design? Both are admirable enough, however, so in the spirit, here are a couple of images of a 40ft powerboat that I did a while back....

[yades]

Originally Posted by hbr

since you like to provide more information, can you provide the weight calculation info,
seems to be cruiser with a fixed keel, what about the main characteristics
loa, lwl, D,T, freeboard ....

if you save the files under jpeg and re-open the same you will be able to see clearly all dimensions as sorted out with maxsurf. However Ive attached the print-out from hydromax just for you to see

all the best

yades

[yades]

TAD, WILLALLISON, TOM28571, BKNAUTIKA

thanks your issues expressed on this thread....

I agree entirely with what you've said, however..........let me add few thoughts about it ....….

As it is extremely difficult (better saying impossible, with some rare exceptions……) finding key drawings + calculations for a sailing yacht or..... "real" designs represented on this or any forum, it would perhaps be a good starting point having at least the hull lines on the three classical views together with relevant hydrostatic calculations, being posted to be shared within a yacht designing forum/community.......it's undoubtedly, to my opinion, a major contribution ..however partial in terms of a project as a whole.... but it enables anyone, interested in the subject ,to elaborate further in terms of technical yacht design and..... perhaps .......latest trends.... .
Then………….. if the construction material is exotic, GRP, solid wood, aluminum, cold-moulded, strip planked wood or…whatsoever….I do not believe (but I agree it is arguable) making much of a difference except...for the money that the owner is willing to spent, and (but I'm not sure....) the purpose intended (meaning...cruiser, racer, open water, coastal cruising..etc..). Just follow any scantling regulation (ABS, BV, DNV, LLOYDS ……the latest CE guide lines …and so and so forth) and technical basic construction drawings including cross sections...web frames...keel details...etc...could be performed ....the extend of the details shown it's just a matter of time available, money involved and support received by the building yard technical designing team.

Moreover, other project issues (extremely important too) such as weight calculations, keel, fin and bulb technical aspects of design, power and resistance calculations, fluid dynamic technical results .........are not available (to the extend of my knowledge) on any share basis or forum…not even symposium’s paper are available on those subjects which could be referred to yachts effectively designed and built…......all you find is theoretical papers!! …... …reasons been quite obvious I should definitely say…….. ..

I agree that the term project embraces something different ...however...........who would be willing to share a complete set of project drawings on any forum…????????. : : that's why ......something authentic like a nice good looking set of "real" hull lines is for sure better then nothing or ........even better then other pretentious attempts....isnt'it!?.

That's the reason why I personally believe it is somewhat easier (if there is a will to do it....) sharing some technical design basic aspects as they could be the ones derived from a real hull lines plan thoroughly conceived in an effort to synthesized all relevant technical aspects encountered in a project: (seaworthiness, safety, stability, control, resistance, performance prediction under sail – better if illustrated via using a polar plotting diagram)......

I will also spare no efforts in saying that these are aspects that to myself MUST ALWAYS be assured under all circumstances (….obviously… ….) but must always go together with the aesthetics of a vessel and (sigh!) latest trends issues. Then, if on top of that, a designer is willing to add nice 3D modeling and rendering pictures to be shared in the forum community and/or a preliminary GA, details on fin keel, bulb and rudder…different views and perspective drawings….and so and so forth, combined with hydrostatic calculations and large angle of stability curve or GZ curve (to say the least... ......well….I believe (and that’s again my opinion…) that a remarkable effort has been done in terms of sharing real issues on technical yacht design on this (or any...) forum community............the very basic thought which I tried to achieve with this thread.....as questioned on previous posts ........

That's why I'm pretty much convinced that on those basis the creation of hull lines is undoubtely to be considered a primary job for a yacht designer..... and even grater if shared on a Y D community/forum....

Thanks & Best regards to u all

Yades

[yades]

Originally Posted by bhnautika

Yades I think there’s more than enough info in fact there’s to much, you lose the gaussian plot and move the lines windows around so they are not partially obscured by the hydrostatics output window I would like to have seen the wl’s aft. The numbers seem to be good for this type of boat Cp .56, L/ C of B 54,3%, SA/Ws 2.4. A VCG .120mm above WL is a good starting point .Ok there is no inboard profile or sections but the freeboard of around 1.8 m, headroom shouldn’t be an issue. Overall a nice boat for the cruiser /racer set I would like to see the headroom in the aft cabin in relation to the cockpit sole height, the passage way under the bridge deck is no problem but the area under the sole? The displacement of 20t seems build able. I never comment on styling as it’s a personal choice but I think some form of rear boarding access may be worth considering for this style of boat. One other thing with such a wide stern I would like to see the relationship between heel angle and trim.

You can view in my gallery the hull lines on a separate view basis
M. Thanks your comments
Will make some tests with the software to see output data on trim under heeling conditions.

Brgds

Yades

[hbr]

You presented the subject in aprofessional way, appreciated your contribution a lot.
You published a lot of valuable info

thanks a lot

BR