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  #121  
Old 09-03-2010, 12:45 PM
apex1
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Originally Posted by thudpucker View Post
What I didn't understand was the Energy it took (the Diesel motor) to drive whatever was inside the big smoke stack, must have been more expensive and more complex than plain old sails.
It surely would be more productive driving a shaft with a prop, rather than driving air across an air foil.
You really should read the thread Thuddy!
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  #122  
Old 09-03-2010, 12:51 PM
apex1
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Originally Posted by Clarkey View Post
Does that look like a rotor or a turbosail in the picture to you?
Jesus a donkey is far less stubborn.............

Whats this?



right, the NA´s plan for Calypso II

What´s this?



bravo, you got it! The same vessel as a model.

Both show a Flettner Rotor.

Yes, Cousteau was as stubborn as you, but he was aware of the advantages of saving fuel.

Regards
Richard
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  #123  
Old 09-03-2010, 01:35 PM
Clarkey Clarkey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apex1 View Post
Jesus a donkey is far less stubborn.............

Whats this?



right, the NA´s plan for Calypso II

What´s this?



bravo, you got it! The same vessel as a model.

Both show a Flettner Rotor.

Yes, Cousteau was as stubborn as you, but he was aware of the advantages of saving fuel.

Regards
Richard
The photo clearly shows a turbosail. The drawing shows a vaguely cylindrical object which could be either a rotor or a turbosail. The Cousteau society was heavily involved with the development of the turbosail, Moulin a Vent had a turbosail, Alcyone had two turbosails, the Cousteau society say that Calypso 2 would have had a turbosail and their video presentation shows a turbosail. I think it may possibly have been their intention to use a turbosail.
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  #124  
Old 09-03-2010, 02:30 PM
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thudpucker thudpucker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apex1 View Post
You really should read the thread Thuddy!
I did read it which is what prompted the question. I asked for an explanation, not a crapload of sarcasam.
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  #125  
Old 09-03-2010, 02:50 PM
apex1
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Originally Posted by thudpucker View Post
I did read it which is what prompted the question. I asked for an explanation, not a crapload of sarcasam.
No mate you have not!

It was mentioned several times (even with figures) that it needs just minimal power to rotate the thingies, Buckau had 10hp El. motors per Rotor. The proa is equipped with a small solar panel for that purpose.

There is nothing inside the "stack" and the Diesel does not drive anything but a prop.
And the air across the "foil" is driven by the wind.

You clearly have not understood the principle.

The crapload of sarcasm I have not seen here to be honest, but a lot of contradictive comments for no good reason except contradiction.

Regards
Richard
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  #126  
Old 09-03-2010, 02:56 PM
apex1
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Originally Posted by Clarkey View Post
The photo clearly shows a turbosail. The drawing shows a vaguely cylindrical object which could be either a rotor or a turbosail. The Cousteau society was heavily involved with the development of the turbosail, Moulin a Vent had a turbosail, Alcyone had two turbosails, the Cousteau society say that Calypso 2 would have had a turbosail and their video presentation shows a turbosail. I think it may possibly have been their intention to use a turbosail.
The society said.......

yes, and that was mentioned already! After Cousteau´s death the plan was abandoned. Cousteau wanted the vessel with a Flettner Rotor and that, and only that, is very obvious in the NA´s drawing.

Maybe not only beauty is in the eye of the beerholder?
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  #127  
Old 09-03-2010, 03:02 PM
Clarkey Clarkey is offline
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Originally Posted by apex1 View Post
The society said.......

yes, and that was mentioned already! After Cousteau´s death the plan was abandoned. Cousteau wanted the vessel with a Flettner Rotor and that, and only that, is very obvious in the NA´s drawing.

Maybe not only beauty is in the eye of the beerholder?
And you said that I was stubborn like a donkey! What is the sail in the photo? What is the sail in the video? What is the sail referenced in the text? Your evidence is basically a rather poor artists impression which is inconclusive at best.

Could it possibly be the case that you are, perhaps, wrong?
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  #128  
Old 09-03-2010, 03:21 PM
apex1
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Originally Posted by Clarkey View Post
And you said that I was stubborn like a donkey! What is the sail in the photo? What is the sail in the video? What is the sail referenced in the text? Your evidence is basically a rather poor artists impression which is inconclusive at best.

Could it possibly be the case that you are, perhaps, wrong?
The "poor Artists Impression" is a sketch done by the NA! How often must one say that???
There is no sail in the photo, but a rotor. The video I cannot access, if that shows a sail, well, so be it.

The fact that the old grumpy wanted a Flettner Rotor on Calypso II remains untouched, and only that was my point.

On top of all that, it is completely insane that we discuss what never was realized in either way, isn´t it?
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  #129  
Old 09-03-2010, 03:36 PM
Clarkey Clarkey is offline
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Originally Posted by apex1 View Post
The "poor Artists Impression" is a sketch done by the NA! How often must one say that???
There is no sail in the photo, but a rotor. The video I cannot access, if that shows a sail, well, so be it.

The fact that the old grumpy wanted a Flettner Rotor on Calypso II remains untouched, and only that was my point.

On top of all that, it is completely insane that we discuss what never was realized in either way, isn´t it?
Please look at the photo carefully - it is not a rotor. The rear flap and suction grill are both clearly visible. The sketch could show either a rotor or a turbosail depending on orientation. I do not imagine that the NA dashed out the sketch but then left the making of the detailed model to some monkey that completely changed the rig without telling him

Here are some more turbosail-equipped Calypso 2 images:




Ooh look - that last image is of the same model as before, the one that has a turbosail.

You are right about one thing - it is not worth arguing further about a mythical ship.
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  #130  
Old 09-03-2010, 03:47 PM
apex1
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Originally Posted by Clarkey View Post
Please look at the photo carefully -
Ooh look - that last image is of the same model as before, the one that has a turbosail.

You are right about one thing - it is not worth arguing further about a mythical ship.
I stand corrected! These are clearly Turbosails!

How far, why and if, the NA was involved in these changes (if there was a change) is mute to discuss.

As the whole issue. Nice we could agree on that.

Richard
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  #131  
Old 09-03-2010, 03:55 PM
ancient kayaker ancient kayaker is offline
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Checkout the "rotor" 18 sec into the video at http://www.cousteau.org/about-us/calypso2 - something odd there, sure doesn't look like a plain jane rotor to me.
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  #132  
Old 09-03-2010, 04:00 PM
Clarkey Clarkey is offline
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Originally Posted by apex1 View Post
I stand corrected! These are clearly Turbosails!

How far, why and if, the NA was involved in these changes (if there was a change) is mute to discuss.

As the whole issue. Nice we could agree on that.

Richard
No problem. Out of interest, do you think there is any future for rotor sails on passagemaking trawler yachts? It is the only leisure industry application I can really see the advantages of the rotor making sense for.
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  #133  
Old 09-03-2010, 04:06 PM
apex1
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Originally Posted by Clarkey View Post
No problem. Out of interest, do you think there is any future for rotor sails on passagemaking trawler yachts? It is the only leisure industry application I can really see the advantages of the rotor making sense for.
No,

the appearance sells. The Rotor will not attract prospective buyers. A further developed (price wise) Skysails system is another animal, there I see a future.

I can imagine a renaissance of the Flettner Rotor on tankers and bulkers around "handysize" class, where every single penny counts, but speed is not the main target.

Richard
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  #134  
Old 09-03-2010, 04:19 PM
Clarkey Clarkey is offline
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Originally Posted by apex1 View Post
No,

the appearance sells. The Rotor will not attract prospective buyers. A further developed (price wise) Skysails system is another animal, there I see a future.

I can imagine a renaissance of the Flettner Rotor on tankers and bulkers around "handysize" class, where every single penny counts, but speed is not the main target.

Richard
Well if the lean steam trawler look comes in to fashion we stand a chance!

The funnel is almost rotor-sized already!

Or maybe a steam tug?
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  #135  
Old 09-03-2010, 04:27 PM
apex1
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Originally Posted by Clarkey View Post
Well if the lean steam trawler look comes in to fashion we stand a chance!

The funnel is almost rotor-sized already!

Or maybe a steam tug?
You can find more suitable craft on my "Trawler thread"

Offer: true go anywhere Trawler to build "side by side"
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