Everything Old is new again - Flettner Rotor Ship is launched

That's really impressive! Makes me even more determined to build my own rotor boat (although it'll have to wait a while as I'm busy building a new home).

 

Is it still running ?

The last news I saw ( October 2010 ) was that is was idle.
http://barratry.blogs.lloydslist.com/2010/10/30/getting-into-a-windy-spin/

If you could do some research, and front up to the company offices and find out if the rotors work, I would be happy to fund a case of cold ones for you.

 

Just a quick question. would a Flettner rotor produce as much power as a prop type windmill if mounted on a windy ridge?

 

I know its an ask, but there are quite a few references and links to Flettner windmills in this thread.

In essence, it appears that Flettner windmills work theoretically, ( and the Japanese spiral turbine seemed the most developed ) , but as one american prototype builder said 'the rotors find the constant variation of gusts and eddies of ground based wind a real problem'

The university of california built a flettner railway, with rotor driven carriages on a short circular bit of track to generate power. An interesting Phd, but not commercially viable.

 

Thanks for the offer, but it will be a hell of a problem to keep it cold all the way to South Africa. I will do it with pleasure at no return favor for you. I am planning to leave on Friday morning early from middle of the Netherlands and drive to Groningen, from there in the direction of Bremen. As Emden is only 10 km from the highway, and if there is enough time, I will visit that place and ask all the questions. From there I will be driving through to Kiel where I will take the ferry to Oslo. Again, if there is lots of time I will go to the shipyard. Kiel is only 600 km away from Utrecht and I will drive it over 1-1/2 days, as the Ferry leaves at 14h00 on Saturday.

I personally don't think it is a business proposition. The cost of the ship will be in some hundreds of millions. Any investor like to see a return over 10 years. If I take the speed at 5 - 6 knots, the cost of the monthly recurring cost like the crew, food, maintenance, etc will be high in proportion and in relation of not having fuel cost per month over total business achieved. I cannot see that the company has not quickly put an extra diesel engine in it, change the name and carry on business with the same ship, under a different name.
Bert

 

If I ask to whoever: "Did the rotors work" They will say : "Yes". I have to come up with a more intriguing question, which gives you a better answer.

The best would be if I would go to a pub, have lunch there, close to their Company offices and ask the questions there, to hear what the real story is.
Could you give me some questions, I could ask??

like: Was the rotor energy enough to make the ship proper controlled in the Emden harbor. etc. etc. Please give me a handful questions. Thanks.
Bert

 

That would be as good a question as I could ever think of.

I was thinking along the lines of "do they still bother to spin the rotors when they are out of sight of land".

I wouldn't mind betting that the true state of the experiment is known by a lot of people in the area, who work in or around the dockyards.

I expect that the problems are as much about bad engineering design as the rotors themselves.

The whole saga needs to be written up by a good investigative journalist ;-)

 

rwatson, I just sent you a private e-mail and wanted to add (using nano-technology very light clinders can now be manufactured.) Stan

 

I will try to find that out in Emden

This will be more difficult, as it will be on Saturday morning in Kiel.

I worked 25 years for a German company and I have seen very little bad engineering design. Let see what we can dig out for you.

I will try to do my best. I still speak some German.
Thanks for the questions you like to get an answer on.
Bert

 

I may have to try to visit the company in Germany , who has the management of the crew for this ship under their control. I have to make a small detour, but it is also on the way to Emden and Kiel

" The ship made its first voyage with cargo in August 2010, carrying nine turbines for Castledockrell Wind Farm from Emden to Dublin, Ireland. Today, it regularly ships wind turbines around the world. According to a ship-tracking website,

E-Ship 1 just left the Cape Verde Islands off the coast of Africa a few days ago. However , this report was from April 2012."

I tried the AIS, but it says "Out of reach". I hope to speak to this company for some information.
Bert

 

The heat of the main diesel engine is producing fumes and exhaust gases and the Siemens system converts this to electricity with a steam turbine. The rotors are spun by electro motors, using the electricity coming from the turbine generator . It is an automatic system, apart of maintenance switches, I assume that it should come on automatically at sea reaching a certain speed and wind. The system supposedly is as automatic as possible to reduce crew. That is what they have paid Siemens for. Did Siemens made a bloop?? The Flettner's system was in 1927 hailed as an technological success. The reason why it did not became a financial proposition in 1927, as I paid 47 years ago only 0,5 dollar cent per liter i.e. USA$ 2 cents per gallon. The extra cost to have a Flettner system added was not a commercial proposition in those days.
Bert

 

Yes, indeed - that's the theory. The thing is, why haven't they been spouting all those figures too ?

German engineering will mean that the systems are very well built, but are they effective ? Why the silence on the performance ? Are the rotors still there just to save face on some calculation cock-up ?

All these questions need to be exposed by the dauntless, persistent Bert K, investigative reporter

 

Well, we may have a scenario which we may have not thought about. It may work so well that the company does not want to give their competitive advantage away. One should not forget that shipping those massive wind turbines and wings are quite costly and SHOULD they have a winning formula, I would also not shout it loud over the Internet.
RWatson, I will do my best to unravel your curiosity, but I am no reporter. Thus whatever I am able to find out is a bonus. No time or lots of traffic jams, it is Friday in Europe and holiday time, tough luck. Bert

 

Lift and Drag equations

Hello,
I want to make simulations and I want to know the equations for lift and drag, depending on the relative wind and the rotor speed rotation, for a vessel having a given direction (see the pdf file).
Thank you!
Piierre-Yves

 

If you look back in this thread you'll find a simple spreadsheet I put together that allows a limited range of performance predictions to be made. It's based on wind tunnel test data, so if used within the limits of that data it should be reasonably accurate at giving the lift and drag the rotor produces.

It's attached to this post: http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/bo...-rotor-ship-launched-24081-12.html#post446611