Enjoy Survival in disaster

[Kay9]

Forgot to mention. The sats that listem is SARSAT and COSPAS. One American one RUSSIAN. Just an FYI

[longliner45]

thanks now I really feel old,,,,longliner

[DanishBagger]

Sorry

[marshmat]

If you are using a 121.5/243 MHz EPIRB, then as Kay9 says, you are dependent on either SARSAT or COSPAS picking up your signal. There is a 4 to 6 hour delay (sometimes as much as 12 hours) for these polar-orbit satellites to fix your location, usually to within 25 km, and forward the distress call accordingly.
These are outdated units, and COSPAS-SARSAT is not expected to continue detecting 121.5/243 EPIRB service past 2008.

Modern EPIRBS use the internationally reserved 406 MHz band. This is the same band used by an aircraft's ELT unit and is detected by the GEOSTAR satellite network including GOES geostationary weather satellites as well as COSPAS-SARSAT satellites. (Note that a GOES satellite can only tell the Coasties who's EPIRB went off, a COSPAS-SARSAT fix is needed to triangulate the actual location.) Most also transmit a 121.5 signal for search helicopters to home in on directly. Typical accuracy is 2-5 km once a COSPAS-SARSAT fix is made. Better ones now include an on-board GPS and will transmit exact co-ordinates along with the 406 signal.

More gory technical details at http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/marcomms/gmdss/epirb.htm

Whatever EPIRB you buy, register the darn thing! Without an entry in the database for the Coast Guard to check the signal against, the unit's not nearly as useful. You have just spent $900 or whatever on this thing that is meant to save your life when your boat sinks, and it costs you exactly $0.00 to register it and make it useful.

[longliner45]

danish,I still have the mind of a 12 year old,,,,dont sweat the small stuff laddy,,longliner

[enjoysurvival]

Where the EPIRB to be placed ?
How to make sure to be with you always?

[DanishBagger]

Ah, good, LL :-)


Enjoysurvival,

You ask a somewhat simple question: Where to put the EPIRB. Now, that is all well, but in the context of the opinions you have already publicised, I find that rather worrying. Nonetheless, I think it's a good question in it's own right:

You can get epirbs (and liferafts, for that matter) to float free when the boat sinks. Me, I'd never go that route. I don't want things to float free unless I say it can. I don't want mistakes to happen.
I'd rather put it in the liferaft, or even better: The grab bag. The reason for this is, that I'll be able to test it without inflating the raft, and I'll be able to use it, without taking to the raft. So, grab bag for me. But some might think otherwise, or even buy a couple or three of them.

But on to something else:

I have now read all your posts, and this has become outright ridiculous.
Most of your posts are about taking computers, MP3-players, cameras and what have you - all in an effort to make someone's survival "enjoyable". Hell, even your nick says so. A survival situation is not scout camp, even if you think it's just like that, or somehow can be like that.

Somewhere along the line, you must have missed the point when it comes to survival: Survival can't be "enjoyable", and if you think it is, then it's bloody well not survival, then it's a primitive holiday. When you are fighting for you life, you don't want to spend all your energy writing blogs, playing games, listen to music, warming batteries and what else you have suggested. You want to bloody hell preserve your energy – surprise! - in order to survive.

This one in particular I consider to be dangerous advice:

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sho...5&postcount=18


Also, your notion that a life raft is "primitive" because it is small, and the great idea that came from that notion - namely, that a single person should have the space of four person can cost someone their life. A liferaft is small so that people can conserve heat - it's not a crappy sun lounge boat.

In that thread, you are even talking gore tex. You ought to look up "survival suit" if you want to give someone good advice going to the arctic. And on that note: You expect him to use body heat to have the batteries going for all your toys? Computers, cameras, musik players. Pfft!

Sure it would be nice to have a real life boat from a ferry, but all that space without a heater, plus the nuisance of dumping it from the foredeck of a 40-footer might result in troubles.

– Andre

Sorry for the rant, people, but seriously …

[Kay9]

He he. Danish, this is why I was asking at the beginning if he was serious. However with that said I think the thread has some merit. As to float free, its not quiet that simple, My rafts and EPIRBs are all float free with hydrostatic releases, I choose 5 Foot hydrostats as I dont want to have to wait too long for the raft to come up, but you can choose any depth up to 200 feet. They have convinced me they are reliable.

I have read of more then a couple of cases where people have had to abandon ship/aircraft in very high winds and when they inflated the raft it simply blew away before they could get in. It just gose to show you cannot preplan everything and if bad luck is yours you had better come up with another to survive.

[masalai]

Well put Danish. There are sadly, some dick-heads who are a waste of the breath they use. Although my competencies come well short of yours, and try to limit my comment to areas of my experience and too often in rebuke as befits a grumpy old bastard. Surely there is some common sense left somewhere??? in these defectives, to have survived to some level of adulthood.

I would love to find the forum Frosty is dispensing home grown wisdom.

I was a volunteer in the "Australian Volunteer Coastguard" which serves generally rescue such idiots from about 40km offshore. I found that absolute stupidity is not the preserve of Americans I am afraid. The coastguard here is very active in training - much at no charge or minimal participant expense and providing a "SAR watch", weather advice and many other services.

[DanishBagger]

Originally Posted by Kay9

He he. Danish, this is why I was asking at the beginning if he was serious. However with that said I think the thread has some merit. As to float free, its not quiet that simple, My rafts and EPIRBs are all float free with hydrostatic releases, I choose 5 Foot hydrostats as I dont want to have to wait too long for the raft to come up, but you can choose any depth up to 200 feet. They have convinced me they are reliable.

Yup, I know people trust that. I guess I'm just not convinced. But it's a choice. One has to choose the thing that seems to work the best (in an situation that'll hopefully stay imaginary).

I have read of more then a couple of cases where people have had to abandon ship/aircraft in very high winds and when they inflated the raft it simply blew away before they could get in. It just gose to show you cannot preplan everything and if bad luck is yours you had better come up with another to survive.

I agree completely.
My plan (in short form), would be to trigger the EPIRB put it back in the grab bag, and launch the (attached) life raft. Now, I'd have a knife on the liferaft (one of those seat belt cutters, of course, both in the raft, and at the place where the life raft is attached. And only when it goes down for real, will I get into the raft, and then cut the string.

This (to me, that is) seems like the proper way –*at least it is simple. Hell, I don't even trust automatically inflating life vests. The reasoning behind that is that you may not want it to inflate in an overturned hull (look at which people die in air plane crashes on the sea – it's the ones that inflate their life vests before they're out of the plane).

But, yes, this thread has its merits, because it gets people thinking. But I do consider his "advice" to be downright life-threatening.

[Kay9]

OK I have to comment on the auto inflating Life jackets. Up untill 3 months ago I loved them. I bought them for all my crew on both boats. I have 2 Commercial fishing boats on the Oregon Coast. I also run the Vessel Assist boat here.

3 Months ago I was triing to take a 45' sport fishermen in an alongside tow on the hip. My boat is 22'. While I was reaching over the gunnel of the sport fishermen, my life jacket inflated, surprised the hell out of me and I fell off the boat. I have since replaced all of my auto inflate jackets for float coats.

[DanishBagger]

Originally Posted by masalai

Although my competencies come well short of yours, and try to limit my comment to areas of my experience […]

Haha, I really can't say I have much "experience" in survival at sea. Luckily. But I think it pays to have a plan, and it pays to think about what is needed in a given survival situation: Shelter, Heat, Water, communication/navigation, food.

I would love to find the forum Frosty is dispensing home grown wisdom.

Me too, that'd be great fun. We could all chime in

I was a volunteer in the "Australian Volunteer Coastguard" […]

And you claim to have less experience in survival than me! Haha, good one, ye bastard!!

[masalai]

You know him better, send him a PM for the forum & cc to me by PM. We don't want everyone to vacate this forum.

Jokes are now over 1000 posts!

[DanishBagger]

Are you calling me a joke!!?

(haha, just kidding - I have just gone over 1000 posts too).


Frosty is reading this thread, so perhaps he will be kind enough to pm us both? Frosty, will you?

Even if Frosty was to do it publicly, it wouldn't matter much. I doubt most of us would leave this forum for a forum about bikes. But perhaps that's just me. :-)

Edit: Err, I somehow imagined him having posted to this thread. He hasn't. I'll PM him.

[DanishBagger]

Kay,

I have to ask you about this:

Originally Posted by Kay9

I choose 5 Foot hydrostats as I dont want to have to wait too long for the raft to come up, but you can choose any depth up to 200 feet. They have convinced me they are reliable.

Am I stupid, but hydrostats work by pressure, right? What gets me about that, is that if a wave slams on top of your boat, or other wise build pressure, will it not be released then? How do they go about that?

Anyway, I'd be nervous as hell while the boat's going down ("will it release?" and "What will I do if it doesn't?").