Dutch Barge long distance cruisers

[Greenseas2]

Just to give you some idea of what can be done with a bit of plywood, type in to the Google search engine,"Hannu's Boat Yard". We are in the process of building the Half Pea and short dory for our own enjoyment. If boats like these can be built by total amateurs, designing and building a plywood Dutch style barge should present no problem. By the way, Hannu's boat plans are ALL FREE. The dory designs are truly beautiful, easy to build and easy on the wallet.

[Tad]

Originally Posted by Greenseas2

designing and building a plywood Dutch style barge should present no problem.

Hummmmm........

This thread is now three years old.....Greenseas was to deliver plans for a Dutch style barge roughly a year ago...did that happen? Are any under construction?

Stating that designing and building a largish (38'??? at last mention?) "should present no problem" is apparently not really the case. After 255 responses and 39,000+ views there is no apparent progress.......how can you state that it presents no problem?

Design and construction of any vessel presents dozens of problems.....which is why it is not that common.

1) Design hours.....who will pay a skilled person to prepare a workable design? Not Greenseas...presently building from free plans.
2) Construction materials.....I'm afraid you need to price out plywood and epoxy, building a good sized barge will require more than a "bit" of both. Dozens of sheets of plywood and tens of gallons of epoxy are not "easy on the wallet". This is one of the main drawbacks.....how does Joe Sixpack afford construction materials when he can barely afford to fill the gas tank in his car?
3) Construction site costs....large rental fees...equipment, buildings, tools, security....massive costs not included in the material cost.
4) labour costs....is your time worth nothing? Building a boat means you are not doing something else...like earning a living.
5) Systems and equipment costs.....huge
6) moorage....where and at what cost...additional services like garbage, sewage, water, phone, etc...

This is why it is far more expensive to build new rather than buy an existing boat (very inexpensive in today's market) and move aboard.

[Greenseas2]

I believe that your asessment of the difficulty in building a plywood barge is somewhat over stated. Existing imported Dutch barges are few and extremely expensive here. Yes,building one will cost some money and time, but it can be done by keeping the goal in sight rather distractions and detractors. Let's face it, the main part of a Dutch style barge is a big wooden Velveta cheese box. The rest takes a little time to work out. With a relative amount of intelligence, I don't believe a naval architect and associated costs are really necessary. Of course, a person can make a paper airplane and apply space technology to the process if one wishes....somewhat wasteful energy.
Cheers

[Pericles]

Selway Fisher offer the opportunity to build an epoxy/ply composite barge. http://www.selway-fisher.com/Mcover30.htm#HAW

However, here's another idea. SIPS panel are used in house construction. Here's one site, there are many.
http://www.hemsecsips.com/

Encapsulate such panels in epoxy and glasscloth and a slab sided vessel could be easily constructed--------------perhaps!!

Foam is not what I would use as I have reservations about its strength in a collision. I therefore considered foamed glass, http://www.foamglas.co.uk/building/home/ as it does not absorb water, but its surface is too friable and the ply delaminated upon impact. I hit it with a sledge hammer.

Gentlemen, I offer you this gem of inspiration. I do not seek thanks or financial reward. After all this idea may just be a croc' o' s''', but cork is the coming thing and you did NOT hear this from me. When waste cork particles are heated under pressure, a natural resin is released, which bonds the particle into blocks that are sliced into slabs for insulation purposes. These slabs are strong, stable and water resistant. Scroll to bottom of pdf.
http://www.apcork.co.uk/Products.pdf

It floats, I tell you, it floats!! Noah could have been Portuguese.

[Greenseas2]

Hi Pericles, good to see you back in the loop. The cork idea was totally unknown to me but any new boat building medium is well worth investigating. The Selway Fisher strip plank barge is a nice one and should be a moderately easy build for someone a whole lot younger than me. The only change I would make there is with that fishing boat pilothouse. I wrote to Paul Fisher as I was unable to find any data or even a reference to a Teign River Gravel Barge as he calls it even though I did find information on the Teign River itself. Must be a local thingy. That particular design is as close as I've seen to what we're working toward. Thanks for your input.

Originally Posted by Greenseas2

I believe that your asessment of the difficulty in building a plywood barge is somewhat over stated. ........Yes,building one will cost some money and time, but it can be done by keeping the goal in sight rather distractions and detractors. Let's face it, the main part of a Dutch style barge is a big wooden Velveta cheese box. The rest takes a little time to work out. With a relative amount of intelligence, I don't believe a naval architect and associated costs are really necessary.
Cheers

A Teign River Barge, takes some money and a little time yah?
look here:
22m cruising cat design concept

And why does it happen here on every second thread that the amateur calls the professional biased?

I know the answer, and I´m sure when I say how it is, we have the next fight here with all the premature statements about ones integrity, education and skills.
But I do!

Almost every amateur "boat dreamer" opening a thread here is looking for a confirmation of his dreams and applause, not for a critical scrutinizing or constructive critics or denials. And because they are not willing to leave their point of view and follow good advice they ALL end up having no boat! As long as I contribute to this Forum there was not a single one of these "dream designers"** coming to a point where building (of a then mature design) took place! NOT A SINGLE ONE !!!!
** a pretty bold claim btw. none of them was able to "design" a vessel, not one....

So, do we waste our time here?
Sometimes yes, when the stubborn kid starts fighting with the pro´s.
Usually not, when we can provide enough valid advice in general, to let other readers have a profit of the thread.

Regards
Richard

[wardd]

Originally Posted by apex1

A Teign River Barge, takes some money and a little time yah?
look here:
22m cruising cat design concept

I plan on building something along the lines of the QE2 only bigger in my back yard

positive comments only please

[wardd]

the cart may be a problem

Originally Posted by wardd

I plan on building something along the lines of the QE2 only bigger in my back yard positive comments only please

Wardd that is a proven design and was a good performer, so should´nt be a serious problem assuming your back yard has a wide waterfront and a sort of beaten path where you can pull a two wheeled cart to bring the steel plates to the place. The rest is just some time and some money, you know.

Ah, another point, borrow a torch for some days, that is a great help frying the crap together!!!

I hope that was positive enough! If not, I deeply regret.

Originally Posted by wardd

the cart may be a problem

You are negative, destructive and not worth a professional advice!!! I leave that topic now (you have´nt deserved more).

[Greenseas2]

Hi Richard. In part I agree with your point of view. Over my 71 years I have been a ship master that came up through the ranks for 4 decades. In doing so, I also managed to build 11 small boats for rental purposes, totally restore to almost new a 1927 lobster boat, 31 foot Pacemaker, 28 foot twin screw Chris Craft bullnose, a 1937 Mathews and a 47 Pacemaker, the last two having been in charter service in New Jersey. All of the above were wooden. I have seen some really nice home designed and built boats over the years that required both dedication and some money to build. As credentials go, my degree is in applied physics so I do have some idea of boat construction. If the desire is there by an amateur, I am sure that the job can be done; however, as you say, few will probably accomplish building the boat. This was a foregone conclusion in starting the thread in the first place. I too could sit down and list the negatives of a project, but why take away someones enjoyable evenings at the kitchen table with pencil and drafting paper sketching a barge of their dreams. Perhaps, just by chance, someone will carry through in designing and building a Dutch Style barge. There are several wooden barge designs on the market so why would someone go to the expense of hiring a naval architect when the existing plans are much less expensive? Cheers

[Greenseas2]

Hi Tad, I didn't mean to sharp shoot your input. Some of naval architect friends are Tom MacNaughton, Jay Benford, the late Phil Bolger and others that are mostly in the ship building industry. I hope the impression was not to demean the professionalism of naval architects. What I attempted to illustrate is that usually the costs charged by naval architects is rather high for an amateur and the design of a flat bottom liveaboard barge just isn't that complex, especially with few compound curves except maybe with an eliptical stern or tumblehome transom. I have seen many of the Glen-L amateur built houseboats in the northwest and rivers in central states, and the barge represents roughly the same degree of difficulty. The thread is particularly geared to amatuers and the occassional new building techniques that pop up from time to time .By the way, one reason that plywood barge plans weren't published is that my wife and I spent quite a bit of time in Tahiti, Bora Bora and other Polynesian islands, then proceeded to Kirabati and then through the Hawaiian Islands and spend some time on Waikiki. This year it's 4 weddings in a row, plus graduations from high school etc., enough to put boat design on the back burner temporarily.
Cheers.

[quote=Greenseas2;290667]

but why take away someones enjoyable evenings at the kitchen table with pencil and drafting paper sketching a barge of their dreams.

That would´nt be nice, I agree.

There are several wooden barge designs on the market so why would someone go to the expense of hiring a naval architect when the existing plans are much less expensive? Cheers

Fully concur, the Selway Fishers for example are very cheap plans, and there is no need to reinvent such design.

But I found the statement "some money and time" in the context a bit besides reality. Even a simple English river barge of 12 or so meters is a 2 years project at least.

[Ad Hoc]

"...Perhaps, just by chance, someone will carry through in designing and building a Dutch Style barge. There are several wooden barge designs on the market so why would someone go to the expense of hiring a naval architect when the existing plans are much less expensive? Cheers.."

I have done exactly that for a client several years ago. He wanted it in aluminum though, not wood. He ran out of money half way through the project too...so the yard was left with a bare hull that sat in the builders yard for a few years before being "sent somewhere", never knew what happend to it..?!

[Greenseas2]

Wonder what the price of scrap aluminum was at that time? With any boat building project, the potential builder needs to put together a comprehensive plan, somewhat like a business plan. This includes the cost of materials, a location to build the boat and all of the other variables. Some of these items may be gotten by taking quotes from the various sources. In calculating time, weather days have to be included. P times 4 (piss poor prior planning) will sink a project every time. In truth, project affordability is the single factor that results in a project failure. A projection on funds programmed over a period of time is the better way to go rather than trying to lump sum the project as well as knowing approximately what the end cost will be.