Dutch Barge long distance cruisers

[Greenseas2]

Everyone keeps refering to locks as a negative. I regularly take 400 to 600 foot tows through locks and am able to keep the vessel off the walls by a few inches. It's not the locks that are at fault for scaring people, it's incompetent vessel operators. As with anything else, locking takes practice, practice practice. On my own vessel we don't even put out bumpers for locking. If there are severaal boats going through,we can drop a few wooden lock boards on the wall side. (1/2" x2" x 3' Lock boards are a Canadian thing and work well without having to get those pretty white bumpers dirty on the lock wall scum) Dirty lock boards can be stored in a small 3" x 3' capped PVC pipe and stowed.

[lazeyjack]

Originally Posted by Greenseas2

Everyone keeps refering to locks as a negative. I regularly take 400 to 600 foot tows through locks and am able to keep the vessel off the walls by a few inches. It's not the locks that are at fault for scaring people, it's incompetent vessel operators. As with anything else, locking takes practice, practice practice. On my own vessel we don't even put out bumpers for locking. If there are severaal boats going through,we can drop a few wooden lock boards on the wall side. (1/2" x2" x 3' Lock boards are a Canadian thing and work well without having to get those pretty white bumpers dirty on the lock wall scum) Dirty lock boards can be stored in a small 3" x 3' capped PVC pipe and stowed.

?? the goal, this thread is about long distance cruisers, you make not much sense, the difference between a glass boat and an alloy one as far as cost goes is minimal to say the least, 40000k of alloy? the rest is the same cost, fittings , fisnish the works
you may like to say something more constructive? Nope? well too bad
i have no fear of locks but when I build I like to make sure my boats suit the business to hand
yes I dunno how many times I have read here abt you long tows
But all i can say is that boats Do get knocked around, in some locks there are huge piles of tyres for people to use
in fact if you think you can cross France without fenders then you a re out of touch with reality if you think even an experienced boatman can make sure he never belts the paint then you are way off track
i was on tugs in North Sea, i sailed since 13, I am now 62 and I have had practice practice practice so dont tell me that practice will stop paint getting scatched, unless you have permanent tyrework all over your topsides, or a good crew, then you cant keep off the wall all the time How ever with the use of ss belting on steel boats you dont need worry abt wall, esp if you have tumblehome and proud beltings
That is why with this alloy boat with belting that can take , breastwork, piles, wharves without fenders , it is of great benefit especially short handed
25 years for a boat? well that'd be a very poor investment

[diwebb]

Hi Greenseas,
a couple of thoughts for discussion.
About thirty years ago I did a design exercise for my local yacht club for a floating club house that could also be used for sail training. I based the design on a Thames Barge, however construction was a different matter. As the club had several builders as members I suggested that the bottom of the vessel and the lower three feet of the topsides be constructed of reinforced concrete, the remaining structure being wood using simple lumberyard stock. The design never went ahead but the concept has always intrigued me and I wondered if this might be a suitable method for the boat you are designing. One advantage would be that the extra displacement would make the vessel much steadier in windy conditions, also the heavy bottom would absorb engine vibrations and make the vessel quieter underway. As you are proposing a vessel of displacement speed only, then the extra weight would not be a great detriment.
Another thought was the possible use of a system I came up with for sheathing old wooden planked boats to prolong their useful lives. My proposal was to use Elastodeck BT as produced by Pacific Polymers in Garden Grove, California, in combination with a geotextile fabric in two overlapping layers. The Elatodeck is a water curing one pot modified bitumen elastomer and is suitable for permanent immersion, it is also relatively cheap ( ten years ago when I did the exercise it was about $16.00 per gallon, epoxy was about $100.00). In combination with the geotextile it produces a laminate that has the consistency of the sidewall of a car tyre and is fully adhered to the wood. Being a flexible membrane there is no problem with the wood moving. This method of waterproofing could be used for wood construction from simple lumberyard materials and is much less demanding on good workmanship. The Coastguard use a similar product to coat their steel sea buoys and these are only hauled every ten years for maintenance, and most of the buoys suffer no rust damage in that time, so the product is proven for marine use.
I hope that you find these suggestions of some use in your design.
I look forward to seeing the final product.
David

[wightmage]

Hi Greenseas2

Please mark me down for interest in the Barge plans.

[Greenseas2]

Thank you for the input, the subject definitely deserves to be researched further. I would be anxious to see how it might work over fiberglass on the submerged part of the hull. It sounds like the compounds might also be self sealing if the hull was punctured and a small leaked occured, and would create minimal drag.

Will do Wightmage.

[Greenseas2]

Wooden bumpers around boats have been existence for at least 100 years and a whole lot less expensive than steel or hard rubber belts, plus they are easily and inexpensively replaced. For $40,000 for any metals, an amateur builder should be able to completely build and furnish a plywood epoxy barge for a fraction of that price. Just as a note, I've also put some rather large ships through tight locks. Also, I have no intentions of going through any French canals. Our design is purely for calm waters in the United States....and elsewhere if people are interested. The reason being that we have no Dutch style barges here and high interest has been shown for a basic, easy to build barge of similar configuration. Welders here charge around $28 an hour which is too much for the average builder. The design is ideally suited for the ICW, rivers and US canal systems, one of which I live near with 5 locks and three 90 degree channel turns.

[lazeyjack]

Originally Posted by Greenseas2

Wooden bumpers around boats have been existence for at least 100 years and a whole lot less expensive than steel or hard rubber belts, plus they are easily and inexpensively replaced. For $40,000 for any metals, an amateur builder should be able to completely build and furnish a plywood epoxy barge for a fraction of that price. Just as a note, I've also put some rather large ships through tight locks. Also, I have no intentions of going through any French canals. Our design is purely for calm waters in the United States....and elsewhere if people are interested. The reason being that we have no Dutch style barges here and high interest has been shown for a basic, easy to build barge of similar configuration. Welders here charge around $28 an hour which is too much for the average builder. The design is ideally suited for the ICW, rivers and US canal systems, one of which I live near with 5 locks and three 90 degree channel turns.

i give up you are IMO one eyed And you are not a boatbuilder, people who have never been such, tend to be totally out of touch with costings
you do not read properly what is said
And prey tell me, when a powerplant is 20k, oh forget it, I wish you the very best of luck with your project, and let's agree to disagree!

[Riverrat1969]

Greenseas2, please put me on your list for your barge plans. I'm one of those people you mentioned that simply cannot afford the extravagance of a professionally built yacht, and it sounds like what you propose will be ideal for easing into the "Frying Pan" off of Alligator River, NC, or winding up the Chowan/Nottoway River in NC/VA.

[Greenseas2]

Thank you for your interest in the design River Rat. The reader response (25,000+) is a good indication that the design would be well worth the time and effort in creating. Thus far, the design shows us that it can be either powered by a small inboard diesel or even a relatively modest 4 cycle outboard in a well. Essentially, the thing that gives the boat it's shallow draft are the dinsions of the hull whch are almost a stretch cat boat hull. Beam 49% of waterline length. This particular measuremnt is in view of the fact that marina slip price (by the running foot) have gone sky high. Plus the added width gives a lot more internal living space. So far and according to the preliminary draft, the boat can be a one bedroom live aboard for two. or a two bedroom cruiser for 4. Space savings can be made by running double berths across the vessel rather than more yachty lengthwise island beds that do little except take up space. Also, the design shows that a single head and shower near the helm would be most useful. Boats that have several heads have higher building and maintenance expenses. Also, a sailboat style galley is probably the most efficient space wise. We're trying to get the same accommodations in to a 34 foot Dutch barge length that most 45 footers have, yet maintain the Dutch barge design quality.
Again. Thank you for your input.

[FAST FRED]

this boat has a strong belting , 16mm thick, and one down by the waterline as some locks are low

GOOD IDEA! in locking the biggest pain was where the lock walls were 6 inches above the filled lock.

FF

[lazeyjack]

Originally Posted by FAST FRED

this boat has a strong belting , 16mm thick, and one down by the waterline as some locks are low

GOOD IDEA! in locking the biggest pain was where the lock walls were 6 inches above the filled lock.

FF

thanks Fred we have been designing this for 6 months and NODODY has commented which is really odd, apart from yourself
I am a real fan of belting, I had a steel yacht once, dutch design, my first build, it had tumblehome, and I put an ss face on the belting, I left it tied up to a commercial dock, where sometimes the waves coming over the harbour would thump her heavily against the piles facing the wharf, I never used fenders or boards and never needed to move her ever, I do the same now with all my alloy builds

[FAST FRED]

Wanting a "Box Boat" our solution for the hull deck area was a modification of the classic Euro sustem of a 3 inch rope to be the rub rail .

We figure a set of inflatable fenders with a tight line would serve the purpose , but be removable , when the beam needs to shrink to ship in the container..

The fenders would sit be in a built channel same as the rope rubrail folks do.

But the concept of a lower rub rail is certainly a concept we will happily STEAL!

Thanks,

FF

[Greenseas2]

Hi Fred,
A lower rub rail is a good idea. Basically we're designing this barge version for the US waterways and canal where most of the locks, when full, still have a couple of feet of wall above the decks. When locking through, I usually leave enough slack in the lines to let the boat stay a foot or two off of the wall. This does take coordination with the decky near the bow, but we also use the wireless head set to prevent having to yell. (great invention). A water level bumper would still be useful in a slip as well as tying up along the bank. We'll have to see how it works in to the design. I have a feeling that belting might be more expensive than average builders could afford though.

[diwebb]

Hi Greenseas,
I did the attached design sketches for a concept similar to yours, here in New Zealand. It has much in common with your idea and I thought it might be of interest to you. If anyone is interested, I would be prepared to work it up in to a full design. Construction is plywood and lumberyard timber. Coatings to owners choice. Power is either one outboard of 30/40HP, two high thrust 8/10 HP outboards or small inboard diesel with V drive gearbox. The cockpit sides would have roll down curtains for inclement weather and the stern seat in the cockpit slides out to provide a spare double berth.
Any comments would be appreciated.
All the best with your design and I would appreciate being copied on the design when it is complete.
David

[Greenseas2]

Thanks for the input David. Your design looks very functional for long distance cruising and I wouldn't change anything. Our design while having similarities is flat bottom as speed isn't a primary requirement. Trial and error are causing some changes here. Initially we had intended to put head and shower forward at the base of the pilothouse steps where it would serve pilot house and both sleeping cabins. We had to change it as the pilot house dinette is the primary dining area where those seated can enjoy full cruising view. Naturaloly, the galley has to be close by to hand up food to the dining area. Also, the engine room for the diesel is under the pilothouse. If an outboard, or two, are used they would be mounted under an elevated hinged berth in the stern where the rudder and steering gear are normally located. This would provide a huge storage space under the pilot house. Details are still being worked out for the boat, but we hope to post the drawings in the next few weeks.