drift boats

[portacruise]

This is the boat material I would use IF using a dory type design. The dory design is just not workable in my area where there is a lot of portaging and long stretches of shallow rapids, punctuated by pools where you can do a little rowing. Rugged lightweight one man inflatables are the only way to go and beat anything else in utility and speed...

Porta

Originally Posted by rasorinc

Just some info for you. Using plastic now. http://www.boulderboatworks.com/index.php

[river runner]

Roger Fletcher is very much the same as all the fishermen (not naval architects) who became boat builders. He never questioned whether there was a better way. He took a biased, dreamy eyed look at the designs and never considered whether it could be improved upon. The drift boat is a take-off ot the Banks dory, which was superceded by superior designs, such as the Swampscott, before that type of fishing disapeared. I was greatly infuenced by the Swampscott and a certain surf boat in the John Gardner book.
None of you that are critisizing my ideas have even seen my design. At least look at my design before judging. I do have a lot of experience floating rivers in canoes and rafts, and I did an enormous amount of reading, spent dozens of hours on the CAD program and have spent who knows how many hundred hours building the boat. At least look at my design before dis'ing it.

[ancient kayaker]

I hadn't realized there was a connection between a drift boat and a dory. it seems unlikely as they are for different purposes. The dory was intended to be heavily loaded with fish and a survival craft in heavy seas, operating in the wide range of conditions that can be expected at sea complicated by shoaling waters in an area where conditions can change with startling speed. When not in use dories were nested on the deck of a schooner; anyone who has designed boats with this feature will know how it impacts design. The conditions on a river are far more predictable, the variations are mainly seasonal but the load can be anything, and it seems logical that the resultant craft would be more specialized in some design aspects and less so in others.

From the location of the thread starter there may be justification for a drift boat. The optimum design would surely be whatever has evolved on the river of choice, modified to reflect recreational rather than working purpose.

A row boat that carries passengers in confined waters will have a transom, it shortens the boat and is a good place to put the pasengers to keep them out of the way of the rower(s). When comparing these boats with canoes, bear in mind there are far more canoe variants than drift boat types, the sea-going dugout canoes of the Haidas can have transoms but a transom is impossible in birchbark construction. A kayak is too low in the water for a transom to be practical, it would destroy the hydrodynamic efficiency. None of these explains why there would or wouldn't be a transom on a drift boat; the reason would likely become obvious after watching one used for its original purpose.

It's an interesting design discussion but seems a bit pointless if the thread starter has 1) already started to build and 2) hasn't posted any design or pictures of the build and 3) hasn't identified the river where the boat will be used. Therefore the matter of the designer/builder's sanity must be kept open for now IMHO.

Or am I just a bit crabbier than usual this morning?

[DCockey]

Originally Posted by river runner

Roger Fletcher is very much the same as all the fishermen (not naval architects) who became boat builders. He never questioned whether there was a better way. He took a biased, dreamy eyed look at the designs and never considered whether it could be improved upon.

Roger Fletcher's objectives in writing Drift Boats & River Dories were summarized by him as: "to chronicle the logic of the boats' evolution as reflected in the experiences of the indivdual boat builders and to preserve the lines of eleven boats that represent changes - some subtle, others obvious - in form that followed function." His book is the result of extensive research including numerous interviews and field work, and includes the lines of eleven historic boats. Sometimes it's helpful to understand how and why a design has evolved when seeking ways to improve it. For example Fletcher documents the evolution double ended boats on the McKenzie and the introduction of the small transom.

The drift boat is a take-off ot the Banks dory, .....

Roger Fletcher documents the development of the current "dory" shaped drift boat on the McKenzie and Roque and neither is directly related to gthe Banks dory. The McKenzie drift boat evolved from a transom sterned river skiff. Firts the sheer was raised. Later double ended boats were built based on the wide transom, high sheer design. Then the double ended boats were modified with the addition of a small transom (originally to allow mounting an outboard shough the increase in space was also appreciated). The resulting shape is very much like a dory.

Fletcher also discusses the evolution of the Roque river boats. The early boats used on the Roque were double ended, flat bottom with considerable flare and relatively low sheers. They were known as Roque drivers, and the design is very similar to the "bateaus" used in logging camps in New England and elsewhere. The driver sheer was raised, and then the transom was introduced. It would seem almost certain that that the Roque boat design was influenced at some point by the McKenzie boats.

It's very likely that some of those involved with the evolution of the drift boats had seen illustrations of dories, and that may have had an influence. But based on Fletcher's research the current drift boat design did not evolve from a dory.

..... which was superceded by superior designs, such as the Swampscott, before that type of fishing disapeared. I was greatly infuenced by the Swampscott and a certain surf boat in the John Gardner book.

The Banks dory was not superced by the Swampscott dory. The Banks dory continued to be used for longlining on the Banks until the fishery ended in the mid-1970's (End of the Portugese White Fleet). Straight sided dories continue to be used for other purposes. Several weeks ago I saw several on the cost of Maine which were being used in the shore based herring fishery.

John Gardner in The Dory Book writes about the origins of the Swampscott dory:
"It has frequently been supposed that the round-sided Swampscott dory, which became so widely popular toward the end of the century for pleasure sailing and power boating as we shall see, constitutes a refinement of the fisherman's straight-sided Bank dory, erroneously taken to have been the prior and original dory type. This is definately not the fact. The knuckle-sided Swamscott dory is too close in resemblance and historical connection to the round-sided colonial wherry, whatever the Swamscott type may have borrowed of the rationalized construction of the mass-produced Bank fishing dories." (Bold type added)

None of you that are critisizing my ideas have even seen my design. At least look at my design before judging. I do have a lot of experience floating rivers in canoes and rafts, and I did an enormous amount of reading, spent dozens of hours on the CAD program and have spent who knows how many hundred hours building the boat. At least look at my design before dis'ing it.

I haven't critisized your ideas. Attempting to improve drift boat design is very much in the tradition that Roger Fletcher documented. It will be interesting to see how your design performs compared to current designs.

[Brookstreamfly]

The rocker, pointed bow, and narrow stern are specifically designed for rough water, not smooth rivers. The pointed bow allows the boat to pierce through standing waves with less "kick-up" than you would experience with the transom pointed downstream smacking on the wave. Rafts don't have this requirement because the tubes flex and ride over standing waves more or less 'sticking' to the water. You row facing forward because other than to see where you are going, obviously, to pull away from obstructions, you need maximum power and the relatively small resistance of the narrow transom allows this pull to be efficient. While, double-bow designs are common, it is mighty handy to have a transom on which to mount the anchor arm, perhaps a small motor, etc. The lack of the keel and V and the rockered bottom allows the rower to spin and manuever MUCH more quickly than otherwise possible, a design appreciated best when you're navigating a ridiculous slalom course in spring runoff. All in all, the design of the Mckenzie style drift boat is amazingly efficient and has been, I'm sure, perfected through hard-earned lessons over the years.

[portacruise]

Originally Posted by ancient kayaker

I hadn't realized there was a connection between a drift boat and a dory. it seems unlikely as they are for different purposes. The dory was intended to be heavily loaded with fish and a survival craft in heavy seas, operating in the wide range of conditions that can be expected at sea complicated by shoaling waters in an area where conditions can change with startling speed. When not in use dories were nested on the deck of a schooner; anyone who has designed boats with this feature will know how it impacts design. The conditions on a river are far more predictable, the variations are mainly seasonal but the load can be anything, and it seems logical that the resultant craft would be more specialized in some design aspects and less so in others.

From the location of the thread starter there may be justification for a drift boat. The optimum design would surely be whatever has evolved on the river of choice, modified to reflect recreational rather than working purpose.

A row boat that carries passengers in confined waters will have a transom, it shortens the boat and is a good place to put the pasengers to keep them out of the way of the rower(s). When comparing these boats with canoes, bear in mind there are far more canoe variants than drift boat types, the sea-going dugout canoes of the Haidas can have transoms but a transom is impossible in birchbark construction. A kayak is too low in the water for a transom to be practical, it would destroy the hydrodynamic efficiency. None of these explains why there would or wouldn't be a transom on a drift boat; the reason would likely become obvious after watching one used for its original purpose.

It's an interesting design discussion but seems a bit pointless if the thread starter has 1) already started to build and 2) hasn't posted any design or pictures of the build and 3) hasn't identified the river where the boat will be used. Therefore the matter of the designer/builder's sanity must be kept open for now IMHO.

Or am I just a bit crabbier than usual this morning?

Being crabby can be unpleasant for those around, but doesn't mean the crab is wrong...

P.