Double end power boats?

[duluthboats]

The double end power boat, where has it gone? We all have a dream boat that we work on back in those dark spaces in our minds. Well my dream boat is a double ender. Something like SailDesign’s, Myrddin . Now I’ve never been one to follow the pack, but with as much time as I spend looking at and reading about boats, I find very few power boats with two pointy ends. Is there a valid reason for this or is this another case where the cost per foot of dock has driven design changes.


Gary

[SailDesign]

duluth,
Thanks for the mention. I think the problem with double-enders these days is that there are very few _motor_ boats (as opposed to power boats) being built. By that I mena true displacement boats. A double-ender will never plane, or even come close to it, and so people just aren't interested anymore.
I know that's a rather defeatist attitude, but after having Myrddin on the web for a while, I have had lots of enquiries (mostly from folks who want free plans) and they all go quiet when i mention a top speed of 7.5 or 8 knots if they're lucky. They seem to think 20-25 would be better. Ah-huh!

Steve "still likes them slow boats...."

[duluthboats]

Another beauty!!

NO WAKE seems to be the rule rather than the exception these days. Why not do it in comfort and style. I think the smaller power requirements would offset the less efficient use of length. But then I spend most of my boating time in a 16’ solo canoe.

Gary

[SailDesign]

Gary - No wake is a good one. It is, of course, somewhat rare these days, with most power boats slowing down to make maximum wash when if they would just frikkin speed up the wash would be reduced 10-fold and we could complain about speeding ;-)
Smaller power requirements? LOL!! When folks in the US start buying Yugos nd Fiats instead of SUVs, then you can think about low-consumption motor-boats. And only then.
It's a great thought, though, and it is truly nice that there are such visionaries as ourselves out there to keep the flame lit ;-))

Steve

[Willallison]

But wait! Who ever said boats are always about compromise? You can have it all!
.......well, sort of......
A boat with a round bum that goes fast!

www.apreamare.com

[Willallison]

there was meant to be a pic in there, but it seems to have beed lost in cyberspace....

ok - so they aren't exactly in the spirit of your discussion and they kind of cheat by having hull extensions out each side, so they're not really round. And I guess they say more about style than substance...but they are Italian!

how about these:
http://www.willardmarine.com/

[gonzo]

Double enders of proper design plane. For example sharpies and dories do. So does the Bartender.

[SailDesign]

Willallison says that www.apreamare.com are italian, and he is right. But really, I mean - come ON, Will! Sheesh - gimme a break, man!
Sorry - I mean...... they are fugly. REALLY fugly.
Ugh! Shudder.....

Gonzo - shame on you - I ain't never seed a double-ended sharpie plane (ain't seed many double-ended sharpies a tall...)
As for Bartender, well..... OK - it planes. But it cheats.
Steve ;-P

[Tad]

Gary;

It's that boat manufacturer's (not boat builders) are selling interior volume. This means that your product is actually more ugly than the next guy's, but, look at all that interior volume. This sells at indoor boat shows, where you can't even look at the boats exterior. It also sells to people who have no historic context for what a boat should look like.

Very few builders understand selling exterior looks, Hinckley is one that does. They fell into it by dumb luck. But the pressure to pump up the interior is fantastic.

A few years back I was lucky enough to have a couple of guys come along who wanted to build a beautiful boat that was really economical. We did it, the Memory 38 resulted, full displacement hull, she cruises at 7.5 knots with a 50 HP engine and uses about .75 gph. Hundreds of folks have been aboard her, and admired her, but no one has bought one. Painful lesson.

The folks marketing the Logan 33, www.heritagelaunch.com are up against the same problem. Good looking boats that perform as they always have are very difficult to sell.

So as designers we have to show people they can have a good looking boat that will also perform really well. I'm engaged in this crusade somewhat with the Passagemaker Lite design series. They are boats with somewhat less interior, but good looking exteriors (IMO!), coupled with excellent performance. I hope to have some success with this formula, we'll see.

There is a French company, Latitude 46, who seem to be having some success at this. They are producing good looking boats that really perform and are not copies of something from the past. They are modern hulls that take advantage of modern construction and propulsion systems.

Planing double enders? Of course, but it will be a new design, taking advantage of all we now know about planing hulls, modern construction, and propulsion. The shape of the ends can be anything you like, but with the right bottom, the right power/weight ratio, and centers in the right spots, no problem.

Liberty is not a double ender, but she does have a very round butt. She planes nicely, some say beautifully. Before she was built some folks said that stern would be a problem unless it was cut off square. I said nonsense, her bottom was right, and the power is there, so she planes.

Lately I've been looking at some awesome antique Swedish powerboat sites, there are some double enders there. Elegant good looks, coupled with stunning performance, that's where we need to go.

My best to all, Tad.

[Willallison]

Saildesign: Fair point, then again I could have pointed you towards these, which are at best no better looking....

http://www.menorquin.com/menorquin_u...laut/index.htm

These guys take the term boarding platform to a whole new level

[Willallison]

Latitude 46:
http://www.tofinou.com/gamme/index.p...u=TOF&chglg=en

Beautiful looking craft Tad and I concur with all your remarks. There are plenty of examples of older double-ender speed boats which planed. And correctly designed, it shouldn't be too hard to achieve. The question though is whether a planing double-ender is any more or less efficient than its square-butted cousin? The lift you lose by chopping off the corners must have some effect...

[SailDesign]

Tad - Swedish double-enders? I have a mental image, and it's not a bad one. Thanks for reminding me.

Will - the Menoquin boats are "interesting". I wouldn't call them ugly straight off, it takes a while to see that. ;-)
As for the swimming platform - well, 'nuff said.

I think, as Tad said, that the pronblem (even with the Swedish-style boats) will be selling them to "real" customers. The folks who like funky old wooden launches will always have one, and it will probably be original. Introducing others to the same style, but not necessarily in aging wood? Could be tough, but it's worth trying.
Steve

[gonzo]

Saildesign: sharpies are traditionally double ended. They were later modified with transoms and other trappings. I have planed in double ended flat bottomed boats many times. In Uruguay , where I grew up, flat bottom double enders are the usual fishing boat. They are built in mahogany and powerd by a 10 to 15 HP outboard.

[SailDesign]

Gonzo - I looked through Chapelle's book "American Samll Sailing Craft" (my only real reference here) and could only find one double-ender. Lots of round-stern boats, lotsa of square, but only one double. I have to admit, that one did look good. ;-)
Do you have any references for traditional double-ended sharpies, I'm curious......
Also, from what part of the wrold are you taking the term "Sharpie", as it does mean different things to different areas, like the word "wherry"
Steve

[gonzo]

I agree that sharpie has different meanings depending on the area and historical context. If you have Chapelle's book, check the 34' model. I had one of them, and it planed under sail. The drawback while planing, is that there is so much spray forward it is impossible to see anything. Even a shallow vee in the forward section makes the spray go sideways and aft. The double ended sharpies are very similar to a downeast dory. However, the freeboard is lower and the bottom has a bit less rocker. I'll see what references I can get you. I'm just back from working out of town for three weeks.