Doomsday boat.

[Boston]

the one thing thats virtually guaranteed in any serious global catastrophe, or even just a national one, is a completely incompetent response on the part of the idiots that tend to get elected. There in it for the money, anything important happens and they scramble to point fingers, rather than actually provide meaningful relief.

There are no functional evacuation plans, yup we saw it in Katrina and we've seen it over and over again throughout hurricane season, there are no functional relief plans, the Haiti quake might be a good example of that one. In the end your on your own, with maybe a community to help or be helped.

Either way, it won't last much past 2050 or 60, by then climate change will likely have caused the aerobic stratification of the oceans that throughout history has resulted in massive extinction events where size is the determining factor if an organism can breath the atmosphere or not. And we've got events where everything down to a pound of two died off. One in which everything down to microbes died off, and numerous where everything down to ten or twelve pounds died off. You'd have to have preserved the technology to distill something breathable from a noxious atmosphere, (for however many millions of years it will take for the system to stabilize again) have the power to run it after years of turmoil, and then produce enough power and air to keep the community happy lest inner turmoil bring the enclave down.

If warming is real and the people who study it are nearly unanimous in there belief it is, then surviving the initial stage will be the easy part. Some guns and walls as well as the ability to grow your own food and produce enough ammo should do the trick, but things go south fast as the situation progresses and changing weather patterns change what crops can be grown where.

my take on doomsday is it won't be a short term event. Certainly not marked by a single day of turmoil and then stable if primitive world. I'm seeing a gradual decay to an uninhabitable planet, or at least uninhabitable by anything the size of a human.

[portacruise]

Yes, I can see where you are coming from on this, but I don't think anyone with common sense plans to survive from disasterous unprecedented events because of government help or even self preparation! There's only hope, one won't know until/should it happen, though it seems something as far as preparation in better than nothing, even if it is the wrong preparation thing. Given past history like the September 1900 Galveston Hurricane, the government response to Karina was considerably better with a much larger population at stake, IMHO. Some lives were saved short term with rescue teams/helicopters/shelters/implied threat of martial law, etc.

Did any militia/preppers/survivalists/ on location in Katrina help, even themselves, or others, and how? How are these survivalists helping the Katrina recovery now?

P.

Originally Posted by SheetWise

Depends on the scope of the unrest, but I would measure in months or years, not days. If Katrina taught us anything, it's that the government has no plan, is incompetent, and will take months (if not years) to respond in any meaningful way -- and that was a localized disaster surrounded by fully functioning cities to use as staging grounds. In a widespread disaster I wouldn't want to be in a situation where I depended on the government at all.

[Submarine Tom]

Porta,

I agree with you, accept having a plan in place even if it's a bad plan is better than no plan.

This misdirects the public and risks putting them in a state of complacency.

We need our own plan or even a community plan where those members take responsibility and empower themselves.

We are way off topic.

[DStaal]

Originally Posted by Submarine Tom

DStaal,

I envy your state of ignorant bliss.

I thought you might think that. In retrospect, I should have made it clearer that I don't expect the government to have anything to do with it settling out. I'm just expecting a power structure and/or set of social norms that can be dealt with to form, with, without, or against the government's help.

Then you have to deal with whether you want to deal with that power structure, but that's a separate question. On a boat, you'd have choices: Investigate the situation, and if you don't like it, sail away.

There are arguments to be made either way on trying to deal with that power structure early on, or to wait to make sure it has fully settled in. Dealing with it earlier, you can help shape some of the basic choices, and gain gratitude and stature. Dealing with it later means you can be more sure how it operates, that it will continue to hold power, and that it has fuller control over the local area. Risk vs. reward. My choice would likely depend on the size/style of my boat, the type of the disaster, what supplies I had, and the size/trustworthiness of my crew.

I'm probably also a bit biased: I've dealt with situations in which social order was very loose (refuge camps, shanty towns, etc, though always as an outsider), and would be comfortable doing so again. I'm not expecting a working portside authority; just that I'll be able to tell before I bring in the dingy if I'll be robbed on the spot or not, and that there will be the start of some form of a local economy.

Save myself, reconnect with society, help the best rebuild, avoid the worst. Simplistic plan, lots of details in implementation, most of which are situational.

[SheetWise]

Originally Posted by DStaal

... That's enough to be able to set up a stable trading relationship.

That is a very high bar to clear -- much higher than I think you're acknowledging.

[Submarine Tom]

New thread started at ARE YOU PREPARED FOR A NATURAL DISASTER?

[DStaal]

Originally Posted by SheetWise

That is a very high bar to clear -- much higher than I think you're acknowledging.

Ok, maybe not 'stable'...

[Submarine Tom]

DStaal,

Thanks for clarifying.

Now, where is East Cost?

[DStaal]

Hmm. Apparently I can't spell, even with a spell check.

East Coast USA; I'm here to learn - I'm in the mountains of West Virgina. (Though I work for the Coast Guard...)

[Submarine Tom]

I'm sure your government sees it as the "cost" guard too!!

I used to work for the Canadian CG myself.

Welcome to the forum.

[MoeJoe]

I'd go with what I know how to handle and repair with small funds and simple tools, what I can hide when needed, what looks insignificant for any attention, what can take supplies and gear for a few weeks. Something I can carry over land by myself. Which can reach waters regular boats can't reach and people can't reach from land. A "water-world doomsday" seems unrealistic. Even if all ice melts, there will still be land and remote islands to live on. A tiny boat which have crossed oceans and the wildest waters. I'd use a sea-kayak.

[messabout]

I reassert my previous statements: This a stimulating thread that has serious philosophic overtones. Yes we have wandered off topic but the result has been to learn a little about the psyche of our members. Maybe that'll give us some insight into the reasons for sticking together if worst ever comes to worse. I believe that we will.

I was 15 years old at the end of WWII. I was not old enough to be a military person but I was old enough to do beach patrols (Florida) at night and civil air patrol (CAP) daytime observer in search of foreign aircraft silhouettes.

Many of you do not know know of the civilian wartime hardships such as gas rationng, heating oil, rubber goods..no way in hell to buy a new set of tires, meat rationng, even shoe rationing. We endured strict rationing of those ordinary things with resolve.

Lucky Strike cigarettes, one of the popular brands, had a green package. They changed to plain white paper packaging because green pigment was an essential commodity for the war effort. There was unity of nation and purpose beyond the wildest imagination of todays youth or corporate ambition.

So if I tend to line up on Baatans side, forgive me, I have a long memory.

[viking north]

Speaking of Battan-- In defence of the crusty old codger re the story of his dad and comrads survival. -- Ref. material --"Singlehanded Sailing" (The experiences and techniques of the lone voyager) Author Richard Henderson. Chaper 2 (motives, personalities,and psychological aspects) Page 50-51. Studys, observations ,and conclusions made by Doctors Bombard, Lindemann and others--(Note -Info condensed from the actual) Stats show that 90% of shipwreck survivors die within THREE days yet it takes longer than that to die of hunger and thirst. Most of the time castcastaways who do not survive simply give up fighting for life. It`s not easy to fight fear(of death) but a majour weapon is self confidence. This is best assured by careful preporation and attention to ones health. While this is a very informative book on sailing and sailing history, this particular chapter has gone one step further including spiritual and is very applicable to any field where one is or about to be exposed to dangerious situations. Very applicable to any survival stratigy and certainly to Battans posts.

[DStaal]

Not that I disagree that your mindset can have a significant affect on how well you recover from disease and injuries, but in reference to it taking longer than three days to die of thirst...

Sure, the human body, under ideal circumstances, can live for a week without water. But on the other hand you can fatally dehydrate yourself in a couple of hours on a sunny day if you make no more than a few mistakes. (Not to mention that many places in the world hypothermia would kill you quicker than that if you were in the water unprotected, or even exposed to constant spray without protection.) On it's own, I wouldn't count that as evidence that they just gave up trying to survive. A situation like that you need mental fortitude, knowledge, skill, and luck.

[BATAAN]

Three rules of river rafters, which I realize apply to our survival scenario:
1. Don't be stupid.
2. S**t happens.
3. Bring beer.
Kind of covers it all.