Do your worst!

It's uncanny just how close they look eh?

I don't think i can get the same lines in Alloy as the edgewater you depicted....



I was kinda hoping to reconfigure the bottom shape from what the design currently shows thus...



to something with a little finer entry and more flare, like this

BUT - I don't think I can get a compound concave curve in plate alloy like the last image without making the bottom into a patchwork quilt...so it apears edgewaters fibreglass shape will be safe for now from my alloy design depredations!

If there was a way I could do it - rest assured - I would!

Cheers!

[Bill the Cat]

Is building your own possible - Bill the Cat Here is my home design - it is certainly expandable to 25" and could easily be developed with a bit of V for the hulls - push to 8" beam and add a second outboard in the tunnel area - 2 - 50's 4s would be both economical and fast.

Hey I'm a new guy - it's just a thought

Hey thats a nifty cat plan you have there - I can imagine it would be a great winter project boat. I reckon you'd enjoy it and possibly learn a lot into the bargain during the process.
Course - at the end you'd have the pride of ownership of something you built yourself...something an off the shelf boat can never match.

Actually I work wood for a living




- so for me - the idea of going back to the factory at nights to build a wooden "boat" in my spare time isn't all that attractive. (I swallow enough sawdust during the day without taking it up at night as well).

I also think timber boats are higher maintenance, and I need low maintenance for charter work.

I built my current boat a 16ft Alloy Barrumundi punt,

from an alloy Kit, so building another larger alloy boats not beyond the realms of possibility.

The "hard" part of it tho is getting a self build thru Dept Transport Survey for carrying paying passengers. The Dept Surveyors want to inspect the progress of the build of the vessel.....standards of tradesmanship, the quality of materials and processes, etc right throughout construction.

Seeing I'm not a "qualified" welder of alloy (experience doesnt count without the bit of paper) - I'd have to pay a tradesman to weld it for me in order to meet the regulations..

On top of that - I'd also have to pay the transport inspectors for endless trips overnight from the city to where I live (600Kms round trip) to inspect it being built multiple times and so it goes on.

In the end it's probably "cheaper" (read less of a headache) to get someone in the city who builds boats all the time to do it for me...

Now - as to cats...I'm not adverse to the idea of a cat at all....even an alloy cat.

Cats ability to carry weight tho isn't as good as many think....they are fine when lightly loaded...and in moderate seas, however when heavily loaded, and in rough stuff, they pound in between the sponsons.

For charter work - the boat ALWAYS ends up heavily loaded, because apart from all the mandatory "gear" you must carry to meet survey, you also must take along every thing that anglers always forget...

Invariably charter boats end up weighing twice what a normal recreational vessel weighs..., but you can bet that whatever you need is aboard...(somewhere)!

Of course for the same weight cats usually draft more than a equivalent monohull, so a heavily laden cat, in shallow work, actually isn't as capable as a shallow drafting mono heavily laden..(these are generalisations).

I've seen a REALLY nice alloy cat that gave me some ideas tho - fitted with a hysucat foil system...which would reduce draft while on plane, cut fuel costs etc...very handy for charter work...



The only "potential problem" could be the reverse boomerang foil system between the sponsons fouling with either weed and / or Lobster trap floats ropes which are very prevalent in some of the areas I fish..... one place theres anything up to 15,000 traps a day set...each with two floats separated bye a short length of rope...probably the "perfect foil trap" if ever there was one.

The floats are usually white and with sun in eyes and a few whitecaps, running over them occasionally is inevitable.

The idea of having to dive over the side with a knife between my teeth to cut the floats off the foil doesnt overly impress me in some of the waters I fish, it could be a short term career move!.



Also - when at rest - the foil does nothing to reduce draft, for shallow flats work.

I guess the "answer" is to build a 65ft mother ship and tow a few 16 ft glass flats boats behind, and liveaboard, but thats outta my league I'm afraid...

Sooo back to the drawing board!

I'm flat broke anyway - waiting to sell some land off to finance the new boat so it's a waiting / research / planning game in the interim..

Cheers!

[gonzo]

I think that with the restrictions you have a folding multihull is the best solution. They are several sailboats in production that have perfected the technology. A trimaran has the advantage of running a single engine. A catamaran is cheaper to build but needs twin engines. Both have enormous initial stability. This could give you a towing beam of 2.5 M and an unfolded beam of 3.5 or whatever you need. Another advantage of multihulls is their shallow draft. Are there displacement restrictions too?

[lewisboats]

I agree with GONZO, the way to go is with a folding design. You may be able to get away with just folding deck extensions, but the additional stability of outboard flotation when the decks are down would lead me to add sponsons to the bottom of the decks, in effect making a trimaran. Perhaps a system of keeping them up at a 30 deg angle or so, when running full speed would keep wetted area down and speed up, then lower them to flat when you slow down or stop.

Another idea that comes to mind it to have a two part boat. I don't know if you have ever seen them, but SeaDoo has a boat that uses a PWC as a power sorce but makes a hull that the pwc fits into for a nice two person speed boat. What I was thinking is use your flats boat as the powersource for a larger unpowered hull. Mate the two and cruise to where you want to go, then detatch the flats boat or center part of the folding boat and go fishin'. This might be in the future, but if you plan for this now, and build the boat so that you can build the bigger hull to mate to it later, you can take your time and go easy on the financial resources in constructing the large unpowered hull. You might be able to design the folding boat to detatch the folding decks and us the center hull as the power source for the larger boat. I guess what I am trying to get at is think of the thing as a modular system, start small and build upon it as the $$$ roll in.

Steve.

Truly guys - thats really lateral thinking and a great idea - a boat within a boat...

Hmm gunna have to "sleep" on that and chew the idea over in my minds eye...a boat within a boat...

The mind boggles... a detacheable flats boat!

Fold out wing sponsons...

Hmmm...

Thanks - thats given me something to think about!

Cheers!

[marcel]

I am rather new to boat design and construction, but have been following this site and learning. I just want to add my penny worth to this thread.

The following link should be a design that suites your purpose. http://www.boatdesigns.com/cgi-bin/s...=2751311_4049. It is intended to be built in grp and is 32 ft long. I think it should be easy enough to rescale the lenght to 25ft and that should get the beam at around 8ft as you needed.

marcel

the boat you r lookin 4 is very close 2 a boat built in tarpon springs,fl.it's on the web-www.gausebuiltboats.com.beam is ur only issue.maybe they can do a custom one off 4 the boys downunder.good luck,cheers.

ps-very sweet 26 footer

[Kevin Lester]

If you visit www. mallards.co.za you'll find some interesting boats under the fishing boat menu. It doesn't seem as if they have one that will exactly meet your requirement but it may be close enough for the designer to adjust his plan to suit you.

[Adam_melb]

trouty,
southwind UB770?
just a suggestion

also blackwatch 25 - not really suited to fly-fishos but could be with a few mods

Cheers adam

Yes,

I've seen the Cobra Cats in the Flesh a few years back at the Perth Boat show and they looked to be great boats, with the African rand trading low against the Aussie $ they also were attractive from a price point of view.

About the biggest hurdle was the survey aspect - getting a foreign boat thru survey is very hard - I've been in dispute with our survey authorities now for some 6 months, can't even get a 21 Kevla cat into a restricted 2 C for fly fishing within 2 miles of shore!

Theres always a zillion hurdles they come up with that I just can't jump...

As to the UB 770 - well yes - agreat hull - but:-

A) I thought Yama had pulled the pin on Southwwind in Oz and they are now made in Brazil or somewhere from the Original moulds? (Meaning again - survey hassels - I was also told Yama / southwind are no longer interested in trying to satisfy the unreasonable requirements of our surveying authorities and only sell boats to recreational users.

B) The Blackwatch 25...

Yes...based on the old Formula 23'3 hull I'm reliably told... a very good pedigree - I forget now what they quoted me for a new one in 2c survey = $250,000???? rings a bell?

At one point I think Blackwatch had balsa cored hulls below waterline, but NOW I think it's only balsa abe waterline...so yes I really do like the Blackwatch 25 centre console...but cost is a consideration after all

Draft on the blackwatch is pretty deep too - and not a lot to be gained with jackplates and low water pickups etc due to no tunnels to run the surface piercing props in...

But so far the UB 770 and 25 Blackwatch are about the closest I've seen to what I'd really like...

Theres actually a second hand Blackwatch 25 for sale in Perth at the moment,listed with one of the brokers and it's NOT that dear and would be lovely IF it could be surveyed - again Transport want nothing to do with an already built boat, they want me to get a new boat period, have a yr 2000 21ft Kevla cat with twin 100 4 stroke Yams sitting in the slip now that they won't survey..because they can't get a set of the plans for the bulkheads placements from the company (who don't have the plans).

Company was sold By Owner same moth my hull was built - they don;t know aWHO built it so can't sign a stauatory declaration to say that it was layed up according to its specifications becaise they don;t know whether they or previous owner of company built the hull etc etc etc...

Dealing with Marine Transport here is a nightmare - if the head surveyor, transport minister tourismminioster and Fisheries minsietr between them can't get a near new 21 ft cat into restricted survey what chance have I got with a Blackwatch from the Eastern states or a 2nd hand one already here?

There are so many "holes" in our transport laws that you could drive the new QE @ thru them.

I'm at the point of taking out a law suit against the ministers and chief surveyor - I've had enough of being stuffed around basically it's gone on for 6 months now just on the Cat alone.

Under the same USL code - in the USA I'd be operating on an OUPV survey (6 pack) wioth NO SURVEY required - but NOT here in Good ol Australia - even tho supposedly we operate under the same USL code!

Heres some anomalys for you.

A boat under 7.5 meters CAN be surveyed for paying pasengers if they are divers - but nit fly fishermen! Divers get out into the water anyway - the fact fly fishers get out into the water to wade fish doesn't count!

A Boat under 7.5 meters can be surveyed for "workers" like federal police etc into 2 C survey, but NOT for paying passengers!

Volunteers in the SES (State Emergency Service) - get river flood 'rescue' boats etc provied by FESA, (Fire Emergency Services Authority). They aren't surveyed at all!.

My son's in the SES - it's OK for him to be drowned in an unsurveyed boat while 'volunteering' to save peoples lives for the govt.

It's OK for Govt workers to be drowned in boats under 7.5 meters.

It's OK for Paying Divers to go out in boats under 7.5 surveyed length.

It's NOT OK to go fly fishing in boats under 7.5 meters, even tho the watres less than thigh deep and people get out to wade fish anyway!

Franklly the survey Authorities here are a bunch a phukwhits, (Apologies for my Language Jeff, I'm pretty cranky about this boat survey shyte!)

It's a clusterphuk of the greatest magnitude - the people in charge of surveys are just inept azzwipes basically...

You can go saltwater fly fishing in a myriad of boats under 7.5 meters anywhere in the world except Western Australia - despite the $8,000 I've paid for charter licenses I can't legally use for the last 5 years issued by Fisheries WA.

Basically the only way this will get fixed is If I sue them which is about my last resort now.

I just can't keep throwing $ at these wankers - they don't KNOW what they want - and they can't tell me waht I CAN use to go to work....

They tell me they are "rewriting" the rules to try and accomodate fly fishing - but I could be long since broke waiting - it's been over 6 months now with no result...

To top it off - I have unlicensed charter ops from interstate operating fly fishing tours here illegally from unsurveyed boats - abnd even when i complain about it - they can't manage to intercept or prosecute them!

I might just as well do the same - scrap m charter licenses forget about surveyed boats and just run illegal tours like everyone else - it's too damn hard and too damn expensive to do it legally -I'd go so far s to say it can't be done in WA.

There is evidence of official corruption within the survey authority in Wa (with their own nacal architect designing boats on the side for one boat builder whose boats always get thru survey, above or below 7.5 meters).

The implication is - that unless you buy a boat thru that builder -so the epats naval archotect gets a kick back - they will go out of their way to frustrate any attempts you make to get a hull survey.

I think It's time we got riod fo the entrebnched corruption and ineptitude in our Marine transport aurthority here in WA and I'm just the fella to do it.

Heads are gunna role - coz now I'm reall pissed off!

It wouldn't matter what boat i showed up with. Theres no way the azzwipes here in marine Transport authority could get it into survey!

I'll just go illegal - bugger it - it aint worth the headaches! I've tried it the legal way - it don't work - Period.

Cheers!

[Kevin Lester]

Trouty
I feel for your frustration, in some small way I can sympathise. I work in construction, I advise on multi million rand projects in South Africa, Africa and Middle East. I decided I'd build my own house, I could save about 50% of the cost of buying one and technically it would be an easy project.

I searched for a piece of ground that I liked for over a year and eventually found one. Then the headaches started, I couldn't get a bond from the bank because I wasn't registered as a builder with the official registering body. ( It doesn't matter that I advise these sort of guys every day on technical matters) The only thing to do was to pay the large fee and register with them. I thought I was on my way. No way. The bank will not approve finance without approved municipal plans, but it costs a lot of money to get the plans approved and if the bank then turns the bond down it will all have been thrown down the drain. Another fight with a stubborn banker, to no avail. Once I'd taken the risk and had the plans approved now the bank will not approve the bond because in their opinion I cant build the house with the amount of money I've asked for. (Which I was able to do in the end). It didn't matter how many bills of quantities and price estimates I submitted, stubborn bankers know better than experienced construction persons. Of course the amount of money they want me to apply for to build the house is way more than my salary will allow me to apply for.

While all this silly bickering is going on in our fine banks my offer to purchase is about to expire, then all the money I've spent registering, getting plans approved etc will have been thrown to the wind, not to mention the year I spent looking for a property I really liked.

Just before I throttled every banker in the country I found one who agreed to give me a bond to the maximum my salary allowed.

It's a long story of frustration with me often wishing I'd never seen the inside of a bank. Every step of the way was tied up with enough red tape to tie you down for the rest of your life.

Just one small incident, I bought roof tiles that were made by a company owned by the bank that gave me the bond. The roof tiles are specified for hurricane zones in the Southern USA because of their strength and ability to withstand extreme conditions. But each tile is not stamped with the official SABS approval stamp so I was ordered to remove the roof and use another (inferior) product that does have a stamp on each individual tile. I fought this one tooth and nail, I literally couldnt afford to remove the roof and replace it, eventually after very numerous and very heated debates with the bank inspector I managed to get approval.

I did eventually get it all done, but I dont know wheter the headaches were worth it, but I did build for about half the cost of buying.

The most frustrating, as you have also noted in your case, was to watch others breaking the law and yet getting away with it. The professional builders employ unskilled labour who dont do any work according to the regulations, they use unapproved materials and yet somehow they all get their buildings approved, I'm sure there are kick backs involved.

The poor guys like you and me who want to do things properly are blocked at every turn.

To encourage you, I eventually have my house. I really hope that soon you'll be able to post on this web site that you've got your boat!

All the best.

[L.DOSSO]

Trouty, see my Shimmer 33 in the gallery(cruisers).SHE HAS TWO VOLVO AD31P/DPE (2x150hp).32.4ft from transom to point wher deck meets bowextension,10.07ft wide,draft 17 inches (hull),27'' with Z-drives,8400 lbs,a chemicalWC can be added,she has 161 US gallons of diesel fuel,hull is grp built.Frames and stringers are Airex+fiberglass.Dec is sanDwich built.As you can see on the deck plan,we can easily add four more seats on pedestals in the cockpit.I estimated top speed to be 27-28 KNOTS.lucas

[im412]

touty....
i know this will be a bit late for you..being that its 2005

the southwind ub range is now being built by southern star marine near gosford nsw
they build to survey..so it wont be a problem

they are a great boat..i've got the ub580 and its a very stable fishing platform
and is very seaworthy
cheers jack