Designing hulls for efficient slow motoring

[sharpii2]

Originally Posted by FAST FRED

No need for a seperate prop and shaft , a quiet 5 hp Honda turning a good cont. duty alternator would make more electric than the solar panels .
...
Only thing you would loose is the WOW factor of a mile or two under "Solar Power".
...
Remember the dead dinasours came from eating plants and others that ate plants ,
so are as "solar " as power coming from a ton of lead.

Now a really interesting concept might be a 2 or 3hp diesel in a well insulated box that could get say 50 mpg at 5K?

FAST FRED

Hi fred

From a contemporary engeneering standpoint, I agree with you entirely. A low powered diesel would be the cheapest, most reliable, and easiest to execute solution. Such a vessel would get between 25 and 30 mpg on a dead calm day and would make 4 to 5kts doing it.

The only problem is is the future. From what I have been able to learn, our use of fossil fuels is about to outstrip the planet's ability to produce them.
We appear to have a situation of demand growing faster than supply. It's not that we are running out as much as it is we are running behind. And at present use rates this is destined to get worse and worse as time goes on.

Such a scenerio can be deadly for economic growth. What I think is needed now is a spirited search for alternatives. And what better place to start looking than with recreational vehicles.

The boat I proposed would be able to go much further than "a mile or two". It would be able run several hours at the stated speed (assuming dead calm or favorable winds). And by several, I mean at least four to six if not eight to ten hours. That would mean anywhere from sixteen to fifty miles a day powered by pure sunlight alone without even using the batteries.

With a higher hp auxiliary engine, up river journeys would be possible. With sails ocean voyages would be possible without any internal combustion engine at all.

The exhistence of high hydrogen fossil fuels has given us lucky first worlders a life of luxury and conveinience undreamed of by previous generations. Indeed, the modern internal combustion engine is a marvel of compact mechanical energy that is the keystone of our modern lives.

We may now face the unpleasent prospect of much of this being soon taken away from us.

Wouldn't it be wise to start asking ourselves how we might get by if this should happen, just incase it does happen?

Bob

[JonathanCole]

Originally Posted by sharpii2

What I think is needed now is a spirited search for alternatives. And what better place to start looking than with recreational vehicles. Bob

In any case it is a creative challenge for people interested in design. Plus there are 50% efficient solar panels in development, with 80% efficient collectors already proven and patented. The sun gives us one horsepower per square meter. We are only capturing 25% of it with current technology. In systems that I have designed, 80% is already captured by collecting electronic and thermal energy. There is plenty of energy, we just need to convert it to a vector.

Originally Posted by sharpii2

That would mean anywhere from sixteen to fifty miles a day powered by pure sunlight alone without even using the batteries.

Such boats are already plying the worlds oceans, seas and inland waterways.

Before too long, with the further development of supercapacitors (one of my areas of expertise) ( http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/WEBONLY.../0105wcap.html , more efficient photovoltaic collectors ( http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/...olar-cell.html )( http://search.nrel.gov/query.html?qp...ovolt&x=15&y=7 ), more efficient thermal electric devices ( http://www.powerchips.gi/ ), and an engineering ethos of conservation and efficiency, we will be cruising and having fun in a clean ocean, breathing clean air, eating food uncontaminated with mercury and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons. Works for me. And even if I don't live to see it, my kids and grandkids will!

[mackid068]

Spirited searches are costly, unfortunately.

[cyclops]

What is the price and availability of a 1 meter, 1 hp producing panel?

[JonathanCole]

Originally Posted by cyclops

What is the price and availability of a 1 meter, 1 hp producing panel?

As I explained above we are not there yet. Currently available technology puts out about 1/4 horsepower per square meter and costs about $750-800. But it has a 25 year warranty and will keep putting out substantial electricity for 50 years or more. That would be about 8500 kilowatt/hrs per square meter, if you just base it on the warranty period. That's about 11,400 horsepowerHours over 25 years. It costs you about 9 cents per kilowatt/hr. It makes electricity even in cloudy weather. With battery storage there are no power outages, just variability based on how much light you have. If you track the sun on one axis you can improve the output 30-45%.

You can also collect the thermal energy (3/4 horsepower/ square meter) that is left over from photovoltaics and heat water or even power a Stirling or steam engine or other heat engine. That is how I collect about 3/4 of a horsepower per square meter of useful energy. Usually simply by heating water which is highly efficient..

[yipster]

were have i been? interesting thread and better stay posted here.

I found such a converted barge in Germany for about $50k. they can range all the way up to $1 million. Lots of dealers for such boats in Yipster's home, Holland.

long long time ago i lived on such a barge moored downtown amsterdam sawing double tubed chimney pipes from asbestos. yeah nice and quit possible, even in the winter till my generator got stolen when i went to the states etc. the guys at http://www.noordersoft.com are actually travelling europe in such a barge and make eu inland waterway software, you may like to contact them.

[mackid068]

Quite possible. But how come the tourist guides to Amsterdam always say to stay away from the people who offer to let you stay on their boat, no offense to yourself, of course.