Design Ripped Off!

[john Christian]

I just found out the yard that I took my design to and asked them to build for me is now planning to build MY design without my consent. They tweaked it some and made some changes, but its still obviously MY design. I dont have deep pockets and am not sure what if anything I can do??? I think this is a common theme and hope someone has some good advice on how I can stop this.

JC

The best available design protection is a design patent according to my patent attorney. But you may have some copyright protection which is worth looking into especially as it relates to the "anti-splashing " law . That end of it I'm not too familiar with.
You should NOT take advice from this board as the final word even though there are a lot of very knowledgeable people here.
You absolutely need to see a patent/copyright lawyer yesterday!
-----------------------------------
It shouldn't cost much at all to find out what you can do.....

[Stephen Ditmore]

See
www.copyright.gov/vessels/
www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2665

Your best recourse at this point may be to ask them for a reasonable royalty on each boat they sell, say 4% of retail, and threaten to publicize the name of the builder in forums like this if they fail to do the right thing.

[Umbra]

Hi John-
I am sorry to hear that-
Unfortunately it is a story that is oft repeated in this business.

The way it was explained to me, was that a ten percent change was all that was required by way of alteration in a plug to alter the patent sufficiently to squirm out of the rights of a designer.
In the seventies, it was a common practice amongst (some) companies to peruse the boat shows, locate the hottest items in way of a boat, and buy it.
That boat would then be taken back to the plant and the cost of tooling a new design would be minimalized by way of making essentially insignificant aterations and using it for a plug.
Things may have changed in the last thirty years as regards some of the patent infringment laws, and folks may be better protected now- However, that has not stopped people from using this practice.

I would like to encourage You to prosecute a fully as possible, for Your own sake and the sake of designers everywhere.

On the up side, if Your boat is manufactured into a going concern by the individuals that have taken it, the revenue potential may be enough to incite an attourney to prosecute on a percentage basis rather than an up-front fee.
Documentation is critical, if You expect to come out on top of this.


Good luck

[Sean Herron]

Hello...

So you got splashed huh, that happens - however it generally happens in newer and smallish yards or big but new yards - key word NEW, and stupid enough to build a spec' boat from an uproven and untested design (no personal offense) - where I work there are proprietory drawings lying about in everyones work area - some interest me from a model making point of view - but it shows how easy your situation becomes...

It is a tight and snobby industry - you have legal recourse but you say you have little money - what you have left is your drawings, your word, and word of mouth - slander the P'icks within the industry and challenge them to take it to court against your original drawings - then watch the 'uh well, lets not take it that far' - backdown - BullSitting
begin...

Take it to the the magazines - the industry magazines - if you feel you have drawings to back you up, there are a lot of people who will do the same - this kind of crap is VERY VERY - well a lot - frowned upon by the well knowns and pros - and they will do a lot for you if what you say is obvious...

Freedom of press and property - I should talk...

Feel free (as far as I am concerned) to post names and places...

Get pissed off - confront the B'sters who ripped you off - what can happen - tell them what you think of them and what you intend to do about it and if they want to take you on - well you have nothing to lose and they do - you are at the end of your rope - it would scare the BeeGees out of my investors...

No kidding - directly challenge them with the above - they argue slander - you argue design submission and comparison to a reputable industry magazine, free public exposure for you - AH AH AH...

ABSOLUTELY approach this as a designer and a pissed off one at that - not a lawyer - forget the percent of modification - any six year old who wants to build a model of a RIVA can do a 10 percent mod for build - confront them from the point of view of old world INTEGRITY marched against public challenge - hell - Email me and your sister, your drawings - I can support you from same - others can too...

Or I will RIP your brainchild...

Or we can drink our tea and hope some appointed poke born 95 years ago has enough magazine subscriptions to make a favourable judge'ment...

Then demand a WRITTEN apology from the mooks - then retire...

Thats all I have to say - I have fluffed up my feathers and I am stomping my boots...

Print this out and take it to them - what the hell - I am the public - and I challenge others to do same so this bloke has a file to hand in to the free loaders...

Have fun...

SH.

[CgarciaDesign]

Sorry to hear that John. I truly am. I am in my last year(s) in college and it breaks my heart to hear it still happens. I know enough about styling to know when I see a splash at 10%, even the high volume manufacturers as well have taken the splash or two. AWFULL.

Do these guys have any dignity ?

Any styles of there own ?

Where is the respect for an artists work ?

It needs to stop.

I believe in whats been said in this thread and any attempts at regaining your design should be sought after. I also am 100% behind the idea of prosecution and/or threatening to share there information with the people they intend to do business with. The name and so-called reputation of any person(s) and/or companies that exploit a persons design with out compansation is not a professional business. I would never work or buy from anyone that would rape the industry that I WORK so hard to belong to.

[mackid068]

Ugh. My apologies. Hire a good lawyer and sue like the wind...

[Tim B]

Terrible, absolutely terrible. I sympathise with you totally, as I have had similar (though on a vastly reduced scale) happen to me. Basically, you've got a few options...

1) Talk it over with them (calmly, you should have a name on the plan!!! this name should be published in the boat's handbook, with your consent, at whatever price that comes)

2) Sue them (this may not be cost-effective, or sensible if word gets around other yards, but hell, you're well justified)

3) 1 and then 2 when 1 fails

4) F**K 'em all and design something better (let them make the expensive mistakes)

I seriously hope this works out for you, you have my full support, and the support of the community.

Tim Brocklehurst.

[Tim B]

Incidentally, you should have you're full design report, and notes, which the yard should not (under any circumstances) get hold of. Your report is for your own/design company records, and is meant to critically consider every aspect of the design and justify why decisions were made. This is not submitted to the client (boat owner) but should be available for inspection. This document is never completed until the boat is delivered, but it does guarentee that is is your work.

Tim B.

[mackid068]

Originally Posted by Tim B

Terrible, absolutely terrible. I sympathise with you totally, as I have had similar (though on a vastly reduced scale) happen to me. Basically, you've got a few options...

1) Talk it over with them (calmly, you should have a name on the plan!!! this name should be published in the boat's handbook, with your consent, at whatever price that comes)

2) Sue them (this may not be cost-effective, or sensible if word gets around other yards, but hell, you're well justified)...

4) F**K 'em all and design something better (let them make the expensive mistakes)

I seriously hope this works out for you, you have my full support, and the support of the community.

I concur with Tim. We all support your cause. But if you want my opinion again, (you're getting it whether you want it or not ) suing is always the best way to go. You can sue without a lawyer, just read up on ownership right related laws. If you have any lawyers who happen to be family or friends, ask their help. All lawyers know something about most/many/all legal issues and if not, they can direct you to someone who can help you. Remember! If you sue sucessfully, the rewards can exceed your expenditures.

[Tim B]

Remember, approach problems as the gentleman. Not as the pscho!!!

[mackid068]

Approch it as a mariner of yore. Swear and make a fuss untill they give you money! RUN OUT THE GUNS AND PREPARE TO REPEL BOARDERS! (bad naval practice, but it sounds ok)

[Thunderhead19]

Some of my more unpleasant experiences have come from customer's and builder's misconceptions about who owns the design. I have known and worked with builders who believe that when they pay you to design a boat, that they are buying the design as well. They become livid when you inform the otherwise. Same with customers. I've worked with yards that designed a boat for a customer and had the customer insist that the design was "bought" as part of the boat purchase. The only customer I have ever dealt with where it was established from the beginning that the design was being "bought" was the Canadian Government. When you design something, it is yours! You are then licensing someone to use your design, usually ONCE ONLY. If they used your drawings without your go ahead, you can have them clamped in irons, flayed and thrown in the brig!!!

Nothing puts cold water on a build like a simple "Cease and Desist" order. First thing to do!!! Clients don't like it when the people building their boat get sued, and usually ask for their money back immediately. They'll start to get concerned when progress on their boat stops for a couple months, then the yard will wind up having to tell them what is going on. Even if the whole thing winds up getting dropped, it will have made a big impact.

[mackid068]

I hear you there, Thunder: If they used your drawings without your go ahead, you can have them clamped in irons, flayed and thrown in the brig!!!

I read a bit too much C.S Forester...(horatio hornblower series, GREAT BOOKS about British Navy in late 17th, early 18th centuries)

[high on carbon]

I design stuff for the retail industry, store environments, displays etc. My standard contract has about 4 pages of legalese covering who owns what of the design. Essentially I have two versions, 1. I own everything, intellectual property and all, and then I assign the right to use the FINAL copy to the client who may be a retailer or may be a builder.

2. Same only the final copy is owned by the client outright to do with as they see fit.

I have only ever had a few clients require 2. (I ususally charge even more for that work)

only once have I had a client insist upon owning all development work etc related to the entire project (Government org) again, fine pay me even more then.

Finally, all my suppliers or builders are all too familiar with my stamps on all dwgs saying precisely who owns them and how they may be used and not used. On bigger jobs I have the builder sign right up front saying they acknowledge who owns the design, me or the client, and that they may not even copy a drawing without my permission. Of course they copy dwgs all the time, no problem for me, if they ever piss me off I can sue them into the next dimension.

Having said all of that, my competitors across town will not think twice about taking a camera and a tape measure to my work once it's in the public domain and knocking it off shamlessly. do I have recourse there, no. why, I have not applied for any copyright or patent, unless I know I have something sooooo good that it's worth it.

I sympatize entirely with your plight. protecting your work is onerous and often costly. seeing it ripped off by @$#%ers is really frustrating. Given the brain capital thatgoes into boat design, I say sue em into the ground and call up the clients buying the boats and make it clear thay are on the hook too.

good luck and don;t stop drawing bc of stuff like this.