Definition of coastal cruiser

[CatBuilder]

Agreed. I tried to let this one go, but you took the words right from my mouth... or keyboard... or whatever.

Originally Posted by FAST FRED

"Cruising along the west coast of Vancouver Island or the north shore of Lake Superior is very different than cruising along the coast of Maine."

Not really , Neither will be picked up and thrown across the water surface., or dropped 10-15 ft.

Neither will have waves running over the decks and perhaps PH for hours on end.

Offshore big waves and sound structure are the rule , this raises the cost of construction , and operation.

FF

[Quatsino Boater]

Hi, can we agree all seas should be entered with care and caution? I really find the old "My area seas are bigger than your area seas very counter productive.

The great lakes are capable of sinking large vessels (Edmond Fitzgerald).

The west coast of Vancouver island is classified as the graveyard of the pacific. the west coast trail was carved out to rescue people who survived sinking off the coast.It is now a world class hiking trail butl durring the rainy months it is still treacherous.


We had a hurricane last year in March. We had over $100 000 damage at work. We had a bulk vessel in getting loaded at the time. I think she was 198 meters long. She was half loaded so say around 20 000 tons. The storm pulled up our dock cleat and one of her bow lines snapped in two. Ever se a bow line on a 600 foot long vessel? It takes a bit of force to snap it!

I don't think the coast of main is any scarier than any other body of water in the world. when ever you venture out, know your boats capabilities, your capability and get the latest marine forcasts. Then err on the cautious side! You probably will still have an ocasional fecal encounter or two but live to wash your undies.

[CatBuilder]

That's kind of ironic how you say that we should drop the "my part of the ocean is scarier than yours", then you proceed to lay out a big case why your part is so scary.

http://www.gulfofmaine.org/gomt/?p=227
http://weather.about.com/od/winterwe.../Noreaster.htm

But... I am not saying Maine is worse than anywhere. I've been rattled to the bone in the Great Lakes and scared sh&%tless in the PacNW.

If you've done enough miles, you've hit all of the areas in question. I know I have.

[DCockey]

When I made the comment which caused the delayed reaction I was thinking in the context of coastal cruising, and not in comparison with off-soundings voyaging. To me coastal cruising is staying relatively close to the coast, not crossing the Gulf of Maine. Along most of the coast of Maine shelter is nearby and accessible. My understanding is the north shore of Lake Superior and west coast of Vancouver Island are not as friendly.

[CatBuilder]

Sorry... I think I'm a bit crazy from boat building 7 days a week combined with trying to figure out boat systems. FWIW, crossing the Gulf of Maine is actually considered coastal cruising in the Northeast. I do it a couple times a week when taking people on charter in the summers.

[DCockey]

Originally Posted by CatBuilder

Sorry... I think I'm a bit crazy from boat building 7 days a week combined with trying to figure out boat systems. FWIW, crossing the Gulf of Maine is actually considered coastal cruising in the Northeast. I do it a couple times a week when taking people on charter in the summers.

Obviously different folks have different definitions of "coastal cruising".

[Quatsino Boater]

Sorry about the rant. We don't get the publicity over on this side since we do not get hurricanes or have hurricane season. We do get weather bombs that turn into hurricane force winds and sea states.

It seems every year someone gets killed over here due to underestimating the weather. That last serious one besided fishing boat going down was a 20 foot aluminum guide boat with paying customers. they figure a rogue wave got them and ejected them. They had all the safety gear imaginable since they are a charter outfit and monitored and regulated by the coastguard.

Back to the original topic though , I like the ISO definition too. It is clear and presice for the purchacer. A coastal cruiser doesn't really spell out the capabilities, more of a trade label. I would love it if all boats had a label on the hull/ transom stating sheltered water .5 M sea, inshore 2M sea, offshore 4M sea and ocean 4Mplus sea. The coastguard and transport canada have been putting on capacity and horsepower maximums for a few years now. A label stating safe use would be benificial too I think. The buyer could then on that basis, select a group of boats that will meet his needs. I guess I am thinking more of off the shelf production boats, not the custom designed and built boats. These are already built and designed to the customers needs.

Do you think north american producers will adopt ISO standards like they do in the manufacturing industry? We sell pulp internationally so our mill is ISO certified. Will the small designer/architect use ISO? the hassle of introducing it/ documentation and the certification process? maybe the larger manufacturers. What do you think?

[DCockey]

Originally Posted by Quatsino Boater

Sorry about the rant. We don't get the publicity over on this side since we do not get hurricanes or have hurricane season. We do get weather bombs that turn into hurricane force winds and sea states.

It seems every year someone gets killed over here due to underestimating the weather. That last serious one besided fishing boat going down was a 20 foot aluminum guide boat with paying customers. they figure a rogue wave got them and ejected them. They had all the safety gear imaginable since they are a charter outfit and monitored and regulated by the coastguard.

Back to the original topic though , I like the ISO definition too. It is clear and presice for the purchacer. A coastal cruiser doesn't really spell out the capabilities, more of a trade label. I would love it if all boats had a label on the hull/ transom stating sheltered water .5 M sea, inshore 2M sea, offshore 4M sea and ocean 4Mplus sea. The coastguard and transport canada have been putting on capacity and horsepower maximums for a few years now. A label stating safe use would be benificial too I think. The buyer could then on that basis, select a group of boats that will meet his needs. I guess I am thinking more of off the shelf production boats, not the custom designed and built boats. These are already built and designed to the customers needs.

For better or worse the ISO categories seem to be the standards. But there is also the issue of the purchasers and users learning what the meaning of the sea states are and how to estimate what they will be in, particularly for day use.

Do you think north american producers will adopt ISO standards like they do in the manufacturing industry? We sell pulp internationally so our mill is ISO certified. Will the small designer/architect use ISO? the hassle of introducing it/ documentation and the certification process? maybe the larger manufacturers. What do you think?

Only if:
1) Legally required
2) Desired by customers. The various "star" rating systems for auto safety have raised the effective requirements for crash performance and safety equipment well above the legal minimums. If an organization started using the ISO standards to rate boats and customers payed attention to them then the builders would too. But that assume customers care about safety. I'm skeptical about much most north american customers really care about safety and are willing to make any tradeoffs for an ISO rated boat, at least in the small boat market.
- OR -
3) Export sales to markets where the ISO requirments are required are important.

[Tad]

Originally Posted by Quatsino Boater

Do you think north american producers will adopt ISO standards like they do in the manufacturing industry? We sell pulp internationally so our mill is ISO certified. Will the small designer/architect use ISO? the hassle of introducing it/ documentation and the certification process? maybe the larger manufacturers. What do you think?

Transport Canada has been moving in that direction for some years now. Small boat certification for retail sale is currently regulated by TP 1332E. http://www.tc.gc.ca/Publications/en/...HR/TP1332E.pdf The stated long term goal is conformity with both ISO (construction and floatation/stability) and ABYC (systems) standards.

One current break point is 6 metre length. All craft less than 6 m must have fully loaded positive buoyancy. Pleasure craft greater than 6m (and less than 24m) have a choice of stability standards, ISO 12217 or the TC commercial vessel standard which comes from IMO (International Maritime Organization) standards. I think the ISO standard is slightly less onerous. All non-pleasure craft greater than 6m must meet a required stability standard, ISO 12217 being preferred as it awards a design category; A, B, C, or D. The cost of all this is born by the builder, and ultimately by the consumer....and it's not cheap......it means that every boatbuilder doing retail sales must employ a Naval Architect(perhaps just occasionally)....some would contend this is part of the reason small boatbuilders have disappeared....