Dare to Say No

[Willallison]

None taken...
They are offered. There are a number of designers &/or manufacturers who offer relatively simple, efficient boats. As mentioned, look at Nigel Irens work.
Hell, I'm one of them! And don't get me wrong, I believe there is a market for such craft. If I'm wrong, I can tell you I'll be seriously out of pocket!!
But the market for such vessels is a fairly limited one. As a result, the economies of scale that the likes of Bayliner and Sea Ray can manage simply don't apply to these boats. As a result they often cost as much - or more - than the 'more highly specced' alternatives. Average Jo, who sticks around 50 - 100 hours per year on his boat, simply won't go for it, because the additional cost for his 'excess' is negligable.

[boat fan]

Originally Posted by Ad Hoc

boatfan
"..I`m hoping some would buy sensible simple boats IF they were offered...".

I think some actually do.
But they are in the minority. This is the free market economy. If someone can make bigger, faster, better for the same price or similar...odds are, like in the car industry, the more "features" sell. Restrict the market, then we all drive Lada's!

Yes , fair comment.

[boat fan]

Yes Will all true. I just get tired of looking at gin palaces I guess..

[boat fan]

Originally Posted by Ad Hoc

boatfan
"..I`m hoping some would buy sensible simple boats IF they were offered...".

I think some actually do.
But they are in the minority. This is the free market economy. If someone can make bigger, faster, better for the same price or similar...odds are, like in the car industry, the more "features" sell. Restrict the market, then we all drive Lada's!

The way I`m looking at this , I always thought offering more of the simple would actually open the market.....maybe not...

I`m really curious what that article says now......Anyone here know ?

[Ad Hoc]

boat fan

Is it the gin palace per se or what they represent?

[boat fan]

Both I think AdHoc

Kitsch on water?

Can`t you pro`s steer us at least slightly back towards good taste ?

The general public ( boating or otherwise ) are like sheep ....look at " fashion ".......they can be led.......

I just feel it`s gone too far the wrong way.....

[Ad Hoc]

One client we had wanted the interior to look like the first class cabin of British airways (he flew them all the time 1st class...well did 10~15 years ago). Even had gold plated loo seat!!!.

What the client wants, the client gets, so long as it is technically feasible and in their budget.

Money can't buy taste!....and who's taste anyway???!!!!

[boat fan]

Originally Posted by Ad Hoc

Money can't buy taste!

[PAR]

I'm afraid Will has it, plus we're missing the real point. The real point is the two boats shown just above, seem to be world's apart and argument can be made for the differences, but it's still shy of the point. The point is they are the same boat! Okay, take a breath, calm down . . .

They satisfy the same need, market nitch, what ever you want to call it, they're the same boat, just with different styling clues, based in the era they're from. Both in their day were well out of the reach of the framing carpenter that drooled over them at a boat show or dockside.

The average pleasure boat in this country is 18' and has an outboard within 80% of the boat's maximum rating, hanging on it's butt. It sees less then 40 hours of use per year. Of the pleasure craft that are berthed for the season (too big to trailer) these see 20 hours of use per year (on average). With these numbers and a declining market folks, of course they're going to be pigs. Fat obnoxious, ostentatious, overbearing, opprobrium, opulent, ominous, odoriferous, swine boats from hell, with glitter on the instrument panel to boot. The glitter really doesn't do anything, but the owners manual makes you believe that it wouldn't be a proper instrument panel without it. This IS the point.

Then of course there are the few odd balls, myself likely included that actually care about impact, use and direction, as opposed to unit sales per year in a subdued market and how our marketing/design team can change the movement of the current sales trend.

[boat fan]

Yes ...I can see the niche point you make.

I can see your point but......I just don`t see the Blanchard as a

Fat obnoxious, ostentatious, overbearing, opprobrium, opulent, ominous, odoriferous, swine boat from hell........ .( just love this bit )

It may be indulgent ,.......but not as wasteful as that Chlorox bottle either.

When I look at the two together ....I think the Blanchard would still look elegant just putting along at 6 knots............

[Landlubber]

Sadly, I love the traditional boat of my youth....but as a boatbuilder/repairer, if I was to rely on them for my bread and butter, I would not even get the bread.
The crap "bubble boats" that have abounded in the last decade are what has been selling......obviously.....we all notice them...Mark is right, we would all starve if we were to rely on anything less.

I personally predict that a few more traditional ideas will prevail though. Marina costs are soaring, many boats sitting there for over a month have been over capatilised, the marina fees are greater than the value of the boat....most boats as we know are rarely used at all, so as money becomes tighter, some of these are being sold off....but no buyers....they too cannot afford the marina fees.

I would expect to see in the future possibly more homemade trailer boats, modestly fitted and possibly with electric engines as batteries suitable become available...there have been big changes here in the last few years.

The boating market here in Australia and I guess other places is in direct competition with the RV market. It is far easier for the family to get into the air cond RV and go out for the day than it is to get the boat out, pack all the crap into it, spend the day getting smashed about on the water then have to come back and wash down everything. Time is becoming more precious to many, simply things will get used more easily than complicated things....

.......and to top it all off, women generally do not like practical boating....

such is life.............

[Guest625101138]

Originally Posted by Landlubber

Sadly, I love the traditional boat of my youth....but as a boatbuilder/repairer, if I was to rely on them for my bread and butter, I would not even get the bread.
The crap "bubble boats" that have abounded in the last decade are what has been selling......obviously.....we all notice them...Mark is right, we would all starve if we were to rely on anything less.

I personally predict that a few more traditional ideas will prevail though. Marina costs are soaring, many boats sitting there for over a month have been over capatilised, the marina fees are greater than the value of the boat....most boats as we know are rarely used at all, so as money becomes tighter, some of these are being sold off....but no buyers....they too cannot afford the marina fees.

I would expect to see in the future possibly more homemade trailer boats, modestly fitted and possibly with electric engines as batteries suitable become available...there have been big changes here in the last few years.

The boating market here in Australia and I guess other places is in direct competition with the RV market. It is far easier for the family to get into the air cond RV and go out for the day than it is to get the boat out, pack all the crap into it, spend the day getting smashed about on the water then have to come back and wash down everything. Time is becoming more precious to many, simply things will get used more easily than complicated things....

.......and to top it all off, women generally do not like practical boating....

such is life.............

You have got that spot on; apart from the RV. I have had that conversation as well. Why would you pay $50k for something that takes some real skill to drive and has limited reach.

You can get on a plane and go anywhere in the world on the points from a loyalty program for next to nothing, hire a car that you do not get too worried about it flying over tall buildings and rent inexpensive yet comfortable motel rooms that you leave for someone else to clean up.

Put the $50k in the bank, get 7% interest and use that to fund the motels each year or so.

I gave up fishing and power boats when neighbours would not accept the free fish unless it was skinless fillets.

I gave up sailing when I could not get my boys away from their computer games to "enjoy" the yacht.

I love being on the water and get great enjoyment covering ground under my own power. I get about 10km per nut bar. A far cry from the 60 to 80 litres I would pump through an outboard in a day trip fishing.

It would be interesting to see how Hobie are doing. From my observations here their sales are on the increase.

Rick W

[Willallison]

Crikey Landlubber!!
Go get a nice cold beer (or XXXX if you don't drink real beer ) put your feet up and relax a little. Life (at least until the ETS gets thru the senate...) isn't that bad...
And my wife loves the boat

I agree that designers have a .... responsibility is probably too strong a word... but will have to do.... a responsibility to guide their clients towards what we perceive to be more sensible boats. I imagine that is the gist of the article by Mr. Morse. But at the end of the day, as AH says... they're paying the bills.
And again, which is the more successful design solution for a vessel that travels less than 50 hours per year... A 3 story floating condo connected to the 3-phase, or a long, light efficient launch that costs twice as much to moor...?

[Willallison]

Originally Posted by Rick Willoughby

You have got that spot on; apart from the RV. I have had that conversation as well. Why would you pay $50k for something that takes some skill to drive and has limited reach.

You can get on a plane and go anywhere in the world on the points from a loyalty program for next to nothing, hire a car that you do not get too worried about it flying over tall buildings and rent inexpensive yet comfortable motel rooms that you leave for someone else to clean up.

Put the $50k in the bank, get 7% interest and use that to fund the motels each year or so.

I gave up fishing and power boats when neighbours would not accept the free fish unless it was skinless fillets.

I gave up sailing when I could not get my boys away from their computer games to "enjoy" the yacht.

I love being on the water and get great enjoyment covering ground under my own power. I get about 10km per nut bar. A far cry I from the 60 to 80 litres I would pump through an outboard in a day trip fishing.

It would be interesting to see how Hobie are doing. From my observations here their sales are on the increase.

Rick W

Mine is the opposite experience....

I get just as much enjoyment from catching and eating a freshly caught fish as when I was a nipper (I only catch what I want to eat, so my neighbour's don't get a say in the matter...)

I haven't bought my boys a computer game, and they love boating as much as I do

I see the 60 or 80 litres of fuel as a very inexpensive cost for recreation (of course I conveniently ignore the investment I have tied up in the boat itself! )

[Guest625101138]

Originally Posted by PAR

..........

The average pleasure boat in this country is 18' and has an outboard within 80% of the boat's maximum rating, hanging on it's butt. It sees less then 40 hours of use per year. Of the pleasure craft that are berthed for the season (too big to trailer) these see 20 hours of use per year (on average). With these numbers and a declining market folks, of course they're going to be pigs. Fat obnoxious, ostentatious, overbearing, opprobrium, opulent, ominous, odoriferous, swine boats from hell, with glitter on the instrument panel to boot. The glitter really doesn't do anything, but the owners manual makes you believe that it wouldn't be a proper instrument panel without it. This IS the point.

.......

I see rapidly increasing boat use in the lake I visit most weekends. It is a small lake and there are only two powered boats permitted - both rescue boats for dinghy fleet.

I think the "average" pleasure boat is getting decidedly smaller, much more available and overall far more user friendly. I regularly see dozens of people come down to the lake for a few hours of exercise and relaxation. Every now and then there are a hundred or so compete in club events where identical roto canoes are supplied.

Once a year I see about 500 hundred boats compete in a single race that requires over thirty hours on the water for most. Most of these people will have put in well over a hundred hours on the water preparing for it.

I am currently spending about 400 hours a year on the water. It costs me a tiny amount in fuel to cartop the boat to whatever waterway I want to visit. I do not have marina fees. I do not bother with boat insurance. I do not worry about the security of the boat in bad weather. I do not have to clean the bird crap off the boat every time I use it. I do not have to get annoyed about the stain from the fallout of the local factory. I do not worry about something going walkabout in the dead of the night.

I am over the anxiety that normally comes with boat ownership. I have a resting heart rate of 60bpm to prove it.

Rick W