Dare to Say No

Again, you are assuming no one has a life, nor a fulfilled life and a life that has been, by your own testament, just an existence, ergo, one must ahve boat made in "your" image to be enjoyable and not considered a luxury item, to enjoy life.

You wont get anyone arguing that boats provided enjoyment. But your raison d'etre and definitions are subjective to you and your personal opinions. These do not equate to everyone...and never shall.

Unless you need your boat to survive, pay your bills, support your family etc etc, it is a luxury item, period. To suggest otherwise means your own "meaning of life" is somewhat skewed from the rest of society.

 

Not soon enough.Along with all the **** being produced right now.

 

Oh but I do advocate distance cruising in small open boats.....sometimes without any engine at all! I do it myself....in our 20' ketch Ratty....



Sometimes in this 13'6" powerboat.....6 installed HP.



These young folks went to Alaska in this 23'9" of my design



And I annually organize a 100mile, 8 day race in small sail and oar boats, The Shipyard Raid http://www.shipyardraid.ca

 

I think Hobie have already cracked it. They have a successful energy saving design. It offers other benefits like no marina fees, can travel hundreds of kilometers to a new fishing spot at little cost with lots of luxury every weekend - even a spar bath if wanted. It can be stowed in the corner of the garage. They dominate this market.

I expect the very small boat market you are talking about is rapidly dwindling through a whole raft of pressures. Mainly brought about 4,000,000,000 people in Asia wanting a share of the cake and competing for the resources that are in limited supply.

As far as cars go I am tossing up whether I will get a plug in electric or a hybrid. I was giving serious consideration to a fared trike but then I would still need something to carry the boat and my wife would not want her car used for that.

The face of transport is changing in Australia. Our public transport system cannot keep up with the demand. People are living closer to work to avoid owning a car. One serious problem is finding a park for it. Our government has placed a tax on company supplied car parks - they are regarded as fringe benefits and taxed at full marginal rate. Just another penalty for car owners.

I could avoid owning a car because I usually work from home, I use a car service for company travel and there are a couple of other cars here if I actually need one.

The market for cars is changing. You need to think in terms of transport not cars. One of my three sons maintains a car and it is a hand-me-down from my wife to him - it is transport and nothing more. One lives close to work and is adept at using the public system so chooses not to own a car. The other uses public transport but is still studying so has no real option.

So there are fiddling at the fringes with more energy efficiency but it is not the main game. The main game is transport. Right now I expect the majority of the people on earth either walk, cycle or scooter to where the make a living. These are the people that are stressing the supply chain as they want to move from walking to cycling or cycling to a scooter or scooter to a car. I do not think they are too concerned about air-conditioning in the car at this stage of their progression.

Rick W

 

So, isn't Rick entitled to make his own boating assessments that are wholly based on his interpretations of how they work for him, just as much as are those of yours? It would seem to me that all of us have a particular slant on how all this boaty stuff works and all of our opinions are just as poignant as the next.

Ad, isn't that the beauty of the human existence... that each individual is entirely different from his fellow man. Speaking for myself, I can easily see your opinions on these matters and yet, you do not speak for, nor ideally model many of the others on this forum. We read your take, digest same and potentially incorporate the opinions based on our own experiences in life and our specific knowledge of the boating world... as we see it.

Especially with this topic, there's no real "I'm right and you're wrong" position, as virtually all of this is highly subjective. One can produce dozens of sheets of data, but in the end, it all comes down to interpretive capacities.

 

Chris

"...So, isn't Rick entitled to make his own boating assessments that are wholly based on his interpretations of how they work for him..."

perfectly...as is anyone. But to suggest that this is the only course and way of thinking....that i take great objection to.

He stated he wants more than an existence, and boating provides that. But boating provides so much more to so many other people and on levels completely beyond that of Rick's.

I have many outlets of gaining pleasure..boating is just one of many. If someone does not like the pursuits i participate in, why should i think that they cannot enjoy anything in life, unless life is viewed and savoured the way i do?

 

There needs to be a distinction between recreational boating and luxury boating. The same boat can fulfill both aspects but they are not the same thing.

What I have observed in maybe the last five years is a much larger uptake in recreational boating. There are more participants putting in a few hours on the water over the weekend. Maybe only a $150 sit-on or a home built sailing dinghy.

In the last two to three years there has been a decline in luxury boating primarily forced by competition for resources that I believe will continue for the foreseeable future.

Hence I believe there is an expanding market for recreational boating and a near dead market for luxury boating.

Rick W

 

Look, I'm sorry, this is getting way off topic, but making remarks that are clearly incorrect to prove a subjective point of view is innappropriate IMHO

The two largest cars in Australia are the Holden Commodore & the Ford Falcon, between them they have by far the largets market share. The only vehicles that are bigger really are 4wd's which enjoyed an 8.5% growth in market share last year. Absurdities like the Toyota Prius have enjoyed some success - but mainly due to government purchases - the need to be seen to be 'green'.

Company car parking has been subject to fringe benefits tax for many years in this country. I believe since 1986, but may be wrong.

The reality is that the real problem - and on this point I think Rick you would agree - is that there's simply too many people. Period.

Chris - neither AH nor I have anything against Rick's idea of what boating should be. If he enjoys it, that's great. What we take exception to is the notion that his should be the only socially acceptable way of getting out on the water.

I think that all we've managed to demonstrate in some 187 posts is that everyone's idea of the ideal boat is different. And as luxury items - one and all - as long as people can afford them, then no one solution will fit the bill.
Personally, the idea of going away for a week on a paddle board or in a rowing boat, would ensure that I would likely give up boating altogether. It just doesn't do it for me. That makes me not better - nor inferior - than anyone else. Just different.

So, without wanting to blow my own trumpet... well maybe a little bit... ... I shall once again propose a solution. Not everyone's solution....
and I quote...

 

I post this company; http://www.deltamarine.com/nc_projects.html , because it is one I am very familiar with and know that none of these boats have stopped production and the reason that there are five under construction and not, say, ten, is that the owners are very cautious and don't want to expand faster than they can pay. I have worked off-and-on for this company since the days when they built my pissant boat (1979), when the manager fired a receptionist for turning down business ("We'll build a damned shower surround if we have to! - don't ever turn away business") ...and guess what -Want a Delta? - try the used market or wait more than five years. The four hundred-some employees can only work so fast!
I am certain, tho, that the owners are looking into ultra-slim technology with more solar panels than horsepower. Lightweight is the key to success! Check back in ten years but my guess is that they will be building cooler, more opulent (maybe even uglier than the Eurostyle Katya) boats to make some people happy.

 

Speaking of ugly...these tri-things have a way to go, IMO, but the thing that really puts the brakes on, for me, is the potential for weird handling in mean seas. How would one of these things do in following 3 meter combers? Got video? When big enough, no problem, but what about a ten or fifteen meter boat in a gnarly rip? Does that pointy little hull dig in as one of the aft amas gets shoved skyward? They all look good (to someone) when they are but a conceptual drawing...

 

That sounds like a lot of fun . I have done it a little , but not intentionally.
I would want a little more comfort , somthing in the mid 20 foot rang
with a decent simple cabin . Lately I have seen a move towards small kitchens on the deck of open boat , so that the deck space can be used to serve different purposes . also a lot more fabric coverings for protection .
certainly the trend of packing a small house into a 25' hull was driven by the
need to appeal to peoples fantasy. It is wasted space for the most part ,
and produces a boat with all manner of bad habits.

Checked out you Passagemaker site . I like the design ,looks very smart , perhaps it need more time ,or more marketing .

 

Correct the FBT was introduced in 1986 but rulings regarding parking did not come into operation until the late nineties. Last time I parked daily in an office carpark was 2002 and the Company did not have FBT levied on that perk then.

You have not been following recent car sales se attached. The large sedans you refer to are 10% of the market. Small and light make up 35%.

I agree that 6,700,000,000, and rapidly growing, of us on this little spaceship is stressing its capacity. I do not have any socially acceptable way of dealing with this. Do you? As you clearly see it as a problem.

To me the only socially acceptable solution is for all of us to reduce our consumption particularly of hydrocarbons as this is where the pressure of economic growth really bites first. And for those of us in the developed world it is not fiddling at the fringes.

I have made a very small contribution to population growth but you cannot blame me for the other 6,699,999,997 out there who want a slice of the pie that you currently enjoy.

You can think what you like about consumption and how you will respond. After looking through the recent polls I know that your view is in the minority across the globe. The majority have concern for the future of the globe.

This is what is shaping the boating market the same as it is shaping transport.

Rick W

 

Soultions - yes
Sociall acceptable ones - no

 

Population growth is the single greatest threat to both the environment and mankind itself. Has been for a long time.
Climate change will continue to occur - has been happeining since "the beginning". Mankind will either adapt or perish. We're a clever bunch, so probably the former. Where boats will fit into that, I think, is probably beyond the intended scope of Mr. Morse's article - and I imagine not what Chris had in mind for this thread...
On the bright side (at least whilst temps are on the way up) there will be more sea for us to go boating in!

 

From my own experience there can be two handling issues with these powered stabilised monohulls (some are true trimarans) that need to have special consideration.

The bow will wave pierce. This is acceptable upwind but is wet if the cockpit is not enclosed. Going down hill it is easy to keep driving a low buoyancy bow deeper into waves. Even under pedal power I can fully submerge more than half the hull in 2ft waves and I have to back off because my feet are pedalling into water.

The other problem is flop roll. If the outrigger hulls are short relative to the main hull and located in the middle longitudinally then the main hull can suspend between wave crests and the boat rolls until one of the outriggers stops it.

As far as seaworthiness goes they are proven performers. The current fastest powered circumnavigation was set by the boat pictured. Not a particularly large vessel.

Rick W