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  #1  
Old 03-12-2005, 06:47 AM
KaiCarno KaiCarno is offline
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Crazy Canadian Canoe Craft

Hello,

This summer I've planned to build a sailing canoe (a Crazy Canadian Canoe Craft ). What I'd like to try is putting outriders on it for stability. The centre hull (picture below) is cheap (about 220 dollars) which is why I'd like to use it. Time is a problem for me so building a hull from scratch is out of the question, furthermore I don't have the knowledge. For rigging I'd like to try a windsurfing mast and sail, one of the largest models, since I've got it already.

Firstly, will I need a centreboard on the main hull (canoes drift sideways pretty fast) or will a centreboard on each outrider provide enough sideways resistance with relatively good properties? By the way, I'm planning on using 20cm piping for them and just fix the fore and aft for hydrodynamic properties.

Secondly, Canoes are normally a bugger to turn even with two people on paddles and I'm wondering if the thing will actually be able to tack. If this is due to the "keel" that goes the whole length of the hull it could perhaps be rounded of to reduce sideways resistance and rely solely on the centreboards which the boat can the "pivot" around for fast turning. Which brings me to the next question.

What can I do about steerage. Some kind of rudder I'd like but if this is positioned at the very back of the canoe will it work at all. Because it might be necessary to have it under the stern as opposed to behind the stern. This would reduce wave resistance but it would also be significantly harder to build. A third option would be to have a rudder on each outrider but that implies some added implications of construction.

Lastly, the idea of using a windsurfing mast and sail sounds strange probably, but it would greatly reduce costs if it were possible. If possible I'd like to not use stays other than one to the front of the boat so a staysail could be rigged. Stays are a hassle when assembling or dissembling the boat for transport.

Summary of Questions:
Centreboard, main hull or outriders?
Turning and tacking too slow?
Steering effectively and the rudder(s)?
The windsurfing board rigging?

Any help is greatly appreciated, and thanks for reading my post =)

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  #2  
Old 03-12-2005, 07:56 AM
dwak dwak is offline
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Hi,

Can't see why your idea wouldn't work. I've toyed with the idea myself. You can get transom sterned canoes that would take a rudder/yoke arrangement. I don't think you would need a centreboard. I think it would tack easily. Your rig idea works on sharpies. The ama spars would be an interesting design chalenge. I wouldn't spend a lot of money. There are also a lot of nice small tri designs out there already. Like the 'Three Cheers' guy.

dwak
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  #3  
Old 03-12-2005, 09:20 AM
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duluthboats duluthboats is offline
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This is certainly not a new idea, sailing canoes were a big deal a while back and still are in some areas. Canoe Rig by Todd Bradshaw, is a good reference.
http://books.boatdesign.net/boat/boo...haw&mode=books
Have fun.

Gary
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  #4  
Old 03-12-2005, 08:46 PM
Free Pirate Free Pirate is offline
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You might want to take a look at this guy's site: http://www.mit.edu/people/robot/

He has a few plans for outrigger canoes, and a bunch of pictures of cheaply-made, 'primitive' ones. If you have the time and the interest, I reccommend reading "SEATTLE TO ALASKA BY
HASTY OUTRIGGER CANOE" and "(Almost) to Cuba by Canoe".

But just the pictures might give you some good ideas if you glance around all over his site.
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So... now I guess all I need is money. And time.
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  #5  
Old 03-13-2005, 04:28 AM
KaiCarno KaiCarno is offline
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Cccc

Gary,

Thanks for the book tip. I'll check the book out, maybe even find it in the library!
I've seen quite a few sailing canoes on the net but only one or two trimaran canoes and these were not derived and modified from Canadian canoes (picture). I don't much like the aspect of sailing a long narrow boat with no keel or outriders, it feels like it'll turn right over =)
The hull shape on the picture is what I'd like to use because, as said before, they are common in Sweden and fairly light as well as cheap. There's even a factory that produces aluminium ones quite close to my place. Is "Canadian Canoe" the correct term to use when talking about the hull shape above?
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  #6  
Old 03-13-2005, 04:30 AM
KaiCarno KaiCarno is offline
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Cccc

Dwak,

hehe, I see that I don't know much about the terms of the boating world!
Your post has left me wondering about a few things.
What are "sharpies" and "ama spars". Also, the "Three Cheers" guy, where do I find his designs? And lastly, no centreboard(s) what so ever?!

Yes, a transom sterned canoe would definitely simplify the problem of steerage, however those canoes are harder to come by, at least in Sweden where double ended Canadian canoes are found everywhere. The closest to a transom sterned canoe are the common rowing-boats. These can have an outboard mounted (or a rudder is mounted easily too, of course) The problem with these is the weight as they're made of wood. The plastic models are too big and too expensive.

Yes, the chief aim of this project is to get a sailing boat "dirt-cheap" and to build it as fast as possible, preferably in less than a month. The crossbars will be made of wood, I think, and the outriders from plastic piping which is cheap too.

Have you seen the Indonesian design of small trimarans? It's really beutiful and they're pretty fast too, I saw when I was there. Used for fishing mainly, the non-charter tourist beaches on Bali are covered with them. The rigging is especially interesting and simple because it involves no mast other than a small "stump" about 3' high, I don't know what its called however.
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  #7  
Old 03-13-2005, 03:40 PM
mackid068 mackid068 is offline
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I'd go for outriggers (a c-board in the main hull if absolutely needed...) but a standard dinghy-style tiller. My 2 cents and not much else.
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at great expense (it's fun though)
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  #8  
Old 03-14-2005, 08:17 AM
NiklasL NiklasL is offline
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Can it do alot?

Here is some inspiration (sorry for the foreignish)!

http://www.canalot.nu/

click on "Bilder & Video" = "Pictures & ..."



Versatile, isn't it? /Niklas
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  #9  
Old 03-15-2005, 04:22 AM
KaiCarno KaiCarno is offline
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Sweden

NicklasL, No problem. Jag är svensk så du kunde lika gärna skrivigt på svenska =) Bra med en svensk sida, tackar för hjälpen. Nu är det bara att vänta på sommar och vackert väder!
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  #10  
Old 03-16-2005, 02:56 PM
NiklasL NiklasL is offline
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Why skulle you call it Canadian when det är a Swedish canoe?
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  #11  
Old 03-16-2005, 03:42 PM
mackid068 mackid068 is offline
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I forgot how similar nordic and germanic languages are to English! Hooray! I can sorta understand. How's the design coming? Have any drawings?
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Sailing (n.) The art
of getting wet and going nowhere slowly
at great expense (it's fun though)
=/\= A sailing Trekkie!=/\=
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  #12  
Old 03-17-2005, 03:55 AM
KaiCarno KaiCarno is offline
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haha

I like you swinglish =) Well, I think canadian canoe is the name of the general hull shape. It's become rather popular throughout the world but I guess that originally it came from Canada or something. I'm not sure. Varför kallar man dom "canadensare" ? Det måste vara namnet på dom
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  #13  
Old 03-17-2005, 04:00 AM
KaiCarno KaiCarno is offline
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Slow

I can't really start doing much at the moment. It's kinda still winter here and I'm studying. Living in the city that is. This summer I'll be going to my parents place where my dad has all the stuff that's neccesary for building a sailing canoe.

I find it hard to draw plans when I cant touch and feel the building material somehow, I'll have to buy the hull too so I can get measurements etc. But I'll post how the project is coming along. Bye and thanks for all the help
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