Cost Of Traditional Wood Build Vs Various Modern Techniques

I agree about being cheaper to DIY! most ofmy boats are in the "under $100" thread!

 

hmmmm
lots to think about

 

Boston with thick diagonal planking , it can be difficult to hold the outer layer in place before fastening, as you know you can use double planks fore & aft, its easier to clamp the outer layers to frames

Daniel ,i had no idea you use traditional building , almost every designer i have seen on this forum uses modern techniques

 

I'm feeling pretty confident about overcoming that type of difficulty and the added strength imparted to the hull because of it seems worth it to me.
Im just wondering if diagonal framing can be applied to stringers over bulkheads with temporary station molds or if I need traditional frame underneath it
the question must be answered before I can do a realistic weight budget

I would be content to just go with double diagonal if it means I can loose the epoxy and use a 9# shellac between layers and then just epoxy impregnate the finished hull

 

Hi Boston,

That is not true. If you take a gutter and close both ends. Put your pine planks in it, poor Mono Ethylene Glycol over it and leave it for the night. Your pine will be lasting for ever.

Bert

 

If I remember well, Tad gave a good advice: Don't think to much, built now. (Not exactly what he wrote but the meaning)
More you think, more you see problems.
I find the most difficult boat to design and built is the one for yourself.
Daniel

 

I did some cold molded and also hard chine plywood. But I never felt it was for me, and always came back on more traditional method.
I never postulated for high speed and "push the envelop" type of boat, thanks God for the customer
Daniel

 

Great wisdom in those words. Look at the problems poor Boston is having! A mind is a terrible thing not to make up.

 

oh come on now Ive made some progress
I have a wooden commuter style boat I want to build out of domestic hardwoods and in a manor conducive to ease of repair and longevity.
double diagonal planking seems the best compromise and it only really remains to be seen if that type of planking works best over a full frame or if it can be applied over bulkheads and stringers with temp station molds
then I can get the weight budget hammered down and go from there

still working on it

B

 

Sorry B. I guess I was really thinking about myself. There's a Wee Lassie canoe (Rushton) that I started to plan about 3 years ago and it's beginning to make me feel guilty.

 

Wood epoxy not "low maintanence ????

Why, I have it on very good authority that they require far less maintence !!!!

This person cant be wrong!

Or has someone had changed their tune in a big way
"Thats not a guess, thats fact!"

 

You can spend zillions on materials, on numerous different processes, and on the fancy paints. But unless there is an owner that has knowledge of what to look for as the boat ages and willing to address the issues that will come up, none of the above matters.

All a person needs to do is to find any solid fiberglass hull laying around someones backyard for even a year and see what happens when a boat is in the wrong hands. If you add this to some yahoo that runs a boat hard and puts it up wet, then these folks desearve what they get, a pile of junk and in some cases irreversible projects forever to make the boat whole again.

I have personally just finished redoing a doorskin laun plywood encapusulate boat that I did as an experient even using the worse of the worse blueboard foam core decking and a grid incorporated into the deck. I spent a grand total of about 4 hours for the 16 foot skiff and its a brand new good to go boat as far as I can tell.


The boat has been in hard core use for 15 years and every several years when I get time or I can't stand the look inside it gets a fresh coat of paint while the outside has gotten nuttin but a chamios and a splash of freshwater after use, finished with awlquip two part paint, dark blue hull in continuous use in saltwater. The paint except for the dings on the surface at some corners still standing tall. I have literally abused the boat by beaching it, dragging clam rakes across the gunnels with kids in tow too.

The moral to this story, is no matter what you own, learn the boat from the beginning and stroke the boat after use, talking to it and it will also talk back to you and you must listen and give it attention.


Afterall its a woman and we that have lived with one for a long time also knows that without maintainance and attention they also do not last.

 

Steel is quite easy end straight forward to take care of.

It is basically infinitely repaireralable and can have very long life. Dutch waters are full of hundred years old iron boats and ships that are still going strong.

It’s not difficult to learn stick welding well enough for basic repairs. Weld is strong as much as plate, and work goes very fast.

Last year I closely watched repair of an very old and neglected 30 meters long sailing barge. Most of her bottom and few places on her sides were getting very thin. She was completely repaired in less than two weeks. Work was done by one welder and two helpers. First day welder walked around with a big hammer, hammered hull and marked bad places. Following days they patched and where necessary replaced plates and few ribs as well.

All other materials, (with exception of aluminum), would take much more time and money.

 

While it's always interesting to hear the pros and cons of other materials I think Boston has pretty much made up his mind on wood. Moving on from there:

Any wood boat building method that resulted in a smooth surface is a candidate for glassing, but I think it is more appropriate for a lightweight boat with a thin typically marine plywood skin that needs additional strength and durability. With talk of sandwiching multiple layers it doesn't sound like that's the way you are heading, Boston. Glassing would tend to retain moisture in thick material, once it penetrated.

I'm not sure who raised the issue of durability, actually, or repairability come to that. But multiple layer diagonal planking doesn't sound particularly repairable. If rot or damage reached an inner layer, presumably the outer layers have to be stripped back a ways for an adequate repair to be made. Sounds like a lot of work, compared to replacing a plank or two in a carvel hull for example. And repairing a cracked frame in a boat held together primarily by glue is likely to be more difficult to achieve a good result than in a boat where the planks are attached to the frames with fasteners.

But some of that is just my opinion base on common sense rather than experience, however. If maitainability and repairability are serious concerns, it might be a good idea to talk to an experienced boat restorer like Par for inputs.

Boston: how much of an issue is weight? You mentioned weight budget a couple of times or so.

 

ya wood is by far the cheapest option for me. its boiling down to the method. If I went with cold molded then I'd be paying more in terms of epoxy and in terms of time although I got all the time in the world its still a consideration. If I went with double diagonal I'd be using a lot of bronze and still using some Epoxy to coat the hull against fouling. so its kinda a toss up of either double diagonal and cold molding and although neither is all that conducive to repairs from interior rot both are easy to repair from exterior rot which is what is most likely to occur
specially since there is only one through hull and that's the Azipod.

were is par when you need him
can I build a double diagonal hull over stringers and bulk heads
is it strong enough to hold the shape of the thicker stock used in that method rather than the thinner typically used in cold molded

hey Guest 37592376593 ???