Concrete submarine

[Squidly-Diddly]

sub. Have you ever actually dived a sub and brought it back up to surface without it connected to a crane?

To me that is the one main problem; all the compressed air and buoyancy tanks, and all their related through-fittings.

It is any through-fittings in concrete that would make me nervous. Maybe some epoxy, but still.



Did I miss all that in this long thread?

Originally Posted by Squidly-Diddly

To me that is the one main problem; all the compressed air and buoyancy tanks, and all their related through-fittings.
Did I miss all that in this long thread?

Where have you seen buoyancy tanks on that?
Btw. all the hundreds of "submarine" vessels operating around the world (proven, safe, and certified), claim in all decent manner to be "dive boats" none of them is named a "submarine". (and none sports a couch)

[bntii]

Originally Posted by Squidly-Diddly

Did I miss all that in this long thread?

You didn't miss anything. The designer feels that control surfaces are the parlance of the "Military submarine", and misplaced in the real world.

[wardd]

i still dont understand the why of this thing

[Submarine Tom]

Wil,

I gotta hand it to you, you sure know how to get a rise out of these old, insecure traditionalists.

I am curious, why you went for such a streamlined shape for such low speeds. You've sacrificed interior space for seemingly little gain.

Tom

Originally Posted by bntii

Plenty to go around..

I'll take 'insecure' if a couple of you others want to step up and take 'old' and 'traditionalist'.

Let me volunteer for "Traditionalist"! I just enjoy the "oldfashioned" way of getting home safe, after a boattrip. Can´t help, so am I (and insecure was already choosen).

And fully concur with Thorwald!

[wellmer]

Originally Posted by WestVanHan

Did I read this right in that you want to market a submarine yacht?...

There's 33,000 unsold power and 28,000 unsold sail boats on yachtworld,and the average boat stays on the market for several years.

Good luck

Good point, and worth of discussion.

In general i am not a big fan of "marketing" - a good product should sell itself.

If you bring something to the market that is new, many people want it, and you can make it available and affordable "marketing" is not necessary it will sell anyhow.

The whole marketing hokus pokus applies only if you want to sell something that is just a "new egg in a big basket of eggs" you have to "create" a reason why people should buy your product.

The submarine yachts we offer are unique some will love them some will hate them many will discuss them, a few will buy them.

Our main focus is on optimizing the product. We have done our R&D over more than 30 years and we are ready to deliver a product that works.

At European Submarine Structures AB we have investigated the market and i think we will be fine.



prototype in the nighties - decades of testing -

[wellmer]

Originally Posted by rwatson

So - the sub is out of its shed - must be 9 months over the original delivery date.

So how is the status of the -
engine installation
wiring and dive controls
life support systems
Marine safety gear (waiting on the anchor deployment system to be displayed)
Marine Insurance
Coastguard clearance

Hello Watson, old friend and fiercest critic...always a bit subversive in the comment...

I get from your comment that you are trying to paint the picture that the project is out of its original frame - and your negative prediction has become true...

I am really sorry to dissappoint you...

The project had a "raw hull building time frame" of 12 months.
We made it exactly in this frame.

The project had a (hull building) budget frame of 331 Europ per ton of displacement - we made it exactly in this budget frame.

What concerns the clearance and permit management we are just fine - we have all the necessary papers.

So sorry to say it - but phase 1 - raw hull building has been a complete success in every single aspect.

Of course you would not be watson if you would not predict a total project failure for any of the next phases to come up...

But please give me the credit - round one - ellmer 1 point - negativists 0 - we keep playing!

[wellmer]

Originally Posted by PanAmMan

Mydauphin,

My regular sailboat "if you could call it that" uses composting toilets. You have to remove a "Bucket Size" tray once a month and the material is dry. with a carbon air filter they are even certified for use in mines!

The larger problem is of course your sink and shower "grey water". That discussion would make a neat cross post to Simple Sub Systems.

Hello PanAmMan

I am trying to filter out the comments that really deserve a answer...

This intervention of yours although it might look funny, is touching one of the most important sistems on any autonomous vessel - from the space station over sailing yachts to submarines, so i will seriously comment on it.

Like you i have investigated composting toilets and it is stunning how advanced the issue is nowdays - no smell - no manipulation (all automatic) - remove a bucket of fine earth once a month. So yes, i am personally a big fan of that sistem. (lighweight, low volume, no problem)

On the other hand many people want a WC . Tons of materials on yacht toilets are available - and no sh..t - all of those sistems are complicated.

I want to focus on the difference between a yacht toilet in a surface yacht and a submarine yacht. In a submarine yacht you can use any yacht sistem as long as you keep the increased pumping pressure in mind if you want to use it during the dive.

What makes a yacht submarine different to a surface yacht is most of all its superior loading and tank capacity. A surface yacht will have a floating line problem if you asign many tons of tank weight to the toilet and greywater sistem.

In a 200 ton submarine you can asign some 100 tons to tanks, diverse equipment, sistems, interior design, this means you can even work with gravity based sistems from the "homecenter".

The mayor yacht requirements - lightweight and function under steep angles are non issues for a submarine yacht.

In a nutshell in a submarine yacht you can apply anything you can apply in a yacht - plus some heavy weight sistems - prohibitive for surface yachts.

tank space in a submarine yacht



huge underfloor tanks - with storage and ballast function

[wellmer]

Originally Posted by Squidly-Diddly

...Have you ever actually dived a sub and brought it back up to surface without it connected to a crane?....

Hello Squidly, seems you missed the history of our concrete submarines - especially the decades of testing submarine yachts in yachting environment - part pls check http://concretesubmarine.com

Wil

Originally Posted by Squidly-Diddly

....To me that is the one main problem; all the compressed air and buoyancy tanks, and all their related through-fittings...

I get from your comment that you imagine a submarine yacht like a military submarine full of compressed air and bouancy tanks... i will answer this quite short because it was discussed earlier. 97% of what you see in a military submarine has to do with weapon sistems and military needs.

Originally Posted by Squidly-Diddly

....-fittings...epoxy,....

Was discussed earlier - general answer - the fitting problem discussion belongs to ferrocement and composite materials - so wrong planet, wrong, universe - fittings in thick concrete see homecenter thousands of solutions available

Originally Posted by Squidly-Diddly

....how will you trim this -

see BEN FRANKLIN...and check the difference in diving between a submarine habitat and a military submarine



Check especially on the importance of compressible versus incompressible hulls, the volumes of ballast necessary, static and dynamic diving...

[wellmer]

Originally Posted by bntii

You didn't miss anything. The designer feels that control surfaces are the parlance of the "Military submarine", and misplaced in the real world.

Oh dear, that is a really misleading comment...

The designer thinks that the military submarine is well placed in the military submarine ambient, and that a private submarine is a very DIFFERENT thing as it is built for a different use and funktion.

Control surfaces serve the purpose of violent quick diving - useful for war ambient.

The designer shares the vision of piccard that a submarine for private purpose should stay with the smooth and much better controlled balloon like diving that was implemented by the BEN FRANKLIN project.

As the "misleader" can easyly see on this picture BEN FRANKLIN does not have control surfaces.

[wellmer]

Originally Posted by wardd

i still dont understand the why of this thing

Hello Ward,

For a number of reasons - most important - leave coffe cup on the table during cruising -



* save harbor beneath the waves
* no hurricane season wandering
* marina and harbor free operation
* closed burglar and pirate safe
* quiet living space at sea
* drift dive operation
* economic cruising
* small engine
* enormous range
* lower slip and maintainance cost
* lower hull building and engine cost


see details at:
http://imulead.com/tolimared/concret...ne/anuncios/ao

[rwatson]

Originally Posted by wellmer

Hello Watson, .....
The project had a "raw hull building time frame" of 12 months.
We made it exactly in this frame.

The project had a (hull building) budget frame of 331 Europ per ton of displacement - we made it exactly in this budget frame.

So what you mean minus the spin and politics is :
engine installation = "NO comment"
wiring and dive controls = "NO comment"
life support systems = "NO comment"
Marine safety gear (waiting on the anchor deployment system to be displayed) = "NO comment"
Marine Insurance = "????????"
Coastguard clearance = "we have all the necessary papers."

I am not sure if "papers" ,mean "insurance", perhaps you could elucidate and put a plug in the for brave underwriters.

It would be good to just get some straight, concise answers every now and then.

[wellmer]

Originally Posted by Submarine Tom

...Wil,I am curious, why you went for such a streamlined shape for such low speeds. You've sacrificed interior space for seemingly little gain...
Tom

Hello Tom,
The shape is good for 30 knots under a 400HP engine. But it is also capeable for long range cruising at 7 knots with not more than 50 HP power input.

I do not agree that it sacrifices any interior space. You have standing height at any point you would want it - no crawl in space design at all.

I understand that the space distribution might be a bit difficult to imagine without having seen the hull interior and the overall feeling it produces.

The living space is wider, lightfuller, better temperature controlled, as it is in any sailing yacht i have seen so far.

In fact the whole concept idea of "ocean based living solution" was born at the prototype testing site - when i got a practical idea how pleasant the interior of a concrete submarine in reality can be.

I tested it out over a decade - i understand that on those forums people that have never seen nor touched nor sailed such a thing keep talkin of dark claustrophobic, coffin, spaces with small faces looking out...etc...

I see this as a normal result of the fact that they have just no idea what they are talking about.

Unfortunatly most have military submarines as model in their heads.

This is a fact i can not change in "discussion" once the boats are out and people feel and test them this will fade away anyhow - so i have no urgent need to change this dead wrong perception on design forum discussions.



inside and light conditions in the 20 ton prototype sub - light - full standing height no crawl in at all.




the prototype on its mooring - cooled in summer - warmed in winter by the surrounding water. Completly dry bilge.



The 200 ton hull finished in raw building - 10 times more space - even more light - living space equivalent of a 68 squarmeter apartment.

Originally Posted by wellmer

Hello Ward,
For a number of reasons - most important - leave coffe cup on the table during cruising -
* save harbor beneath the waves
* no hurricane season wandering
* marina and harbor free operation
* closed burglar and pirate safe
* quiet living space at sea
* drift dive operation
* economic cruising
* small engine
* enormous range
* lower slip and maintainance cost
* lower hull building and engine cost

Hey do´nt stop here! Bring more of such bullsh!t...........thats better than a soap opera! Oh, of course 30 years of development and research! You, for sure have noticed that others sold their proven products during this period?! And you may believe that some of us have some first hand experience with some of these "dive boats"!? Yours is a coffin, no submarine, no dive boat. And you, for sure are absolutely far beyond common sense!