Concrete Canoe! (Help)

[Luciano]

Hi,,,, I a civil engineering student from Arizona State University. We are planning to build a concrete canoe for the next ASCE (American Society of Civil Engineers) regional conference competition.
I never designed a canoe before, and my first difficulty is to decide what program to use (Prolines, ProSurf, MaxSurf, Rhino, SeaSolutions….). Therefore I’m trying to use this chat room, and your experience in the subject, to make the best decision possible.
We need a program simple enough that beginners, like me, are able to use, but yet, advanced enough so that we would be able to design for drag. I would appreciate if you could lead me to the right direction.


Thanks a lot....


Luciano Sales (lbs@asu.edu)

[gonzo]

Try http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~fs...reads/fred.htm

[Tim B]

More critical perhaps than the software is the probable weight and size. I assume that you intend to carry people. this being the case, don't forget that in most canoes the crew weight is greater than the hull weight. The canoe obviously has to displace as much weight of water as weight of boatin order to float. You will need a very thin hull shell to obtain this with a canoe. So... how thin can you make the shell?

Good Luck

Tim B.

[gonzo]

Another aspect to consider is your canoeing experience if you have to paddle it. A circular bottom section is the most efficient but least stable.

[Luciano]

I"ve been testing some sheets of concrete and I'm certain that I can make the canoe 3/8" to 1/2" thick. I plan to carry a maximum of 4 people and I was planning make the canoe 20' long. I'm in the process of testing the concrete right now and I don't have yet a final density value for the concrete. I would like the canoe to weight around 200 lbs.

Originally Posted by Tim B

More critical perhaps than the software is the probable weight and size. I assume that you intend to carry people. this being the case, don't forget that in most canoes the crew weight is greater than the hull weight. The canoe obviously has to displace as much weight of water as weight of boatin order to float. You will need a very thin hull shell to obtain this with a canoe. So... how thin can you make the shell?

Good Luck

Tim B.

[Luciano]

Yes,,,, one of the competitions is an actual race. We need a canoe that make ez turns and yet stable in a straight line.

Originally Posted by gonzo

Another aspect to consider is your canoeing experience if you have to paddle it. A circular bottom section is the most efficient but least stable.

[Not A Guest]

Perhaps you could use existing plans. I don't understand your reasons for a 20' boat, but you can scale up an existing 17' boat.

200# is too heavy. College kids are building 60# 17' concrete canoes. 1/8"' walls pumping the mix between matched molds.

[Robert Brasted]

There have been plenty of books on ferro cement construction, but they are probably out of print as the method was most popular in the '70s. You will need a steel mesh armature (other materials possible) to hold things together. What is your time scale for getting this done? I can find some information but it will be buried in my archives. Not sure why I get to be a junior member at 68

[Luciano]

Greeeeat….. 1/8” thick…. That is really good… I’ve built a mold out of Styrofoam, but I’m not sure how would I be able to build those matched molds. Is 17’ a standard length for canoes?


Thanks

Luciano

Originally Posted by Not A Guest

Perhaps you could use existing plans. I don't understand your reasons for a 20' boat, but you can scale up an existing 17' boat.

200# is too heavy. College kids are building 60# 17' concrete canoes. 1/8"' walls pumping the mix between matched molds.

[Luciano]

The canoe needs to be done by April of 2005. But would be nice to get it done early and try it out at the lake before the competition.

thanks

Originally Posted by Robert Brasted

There have been plenty of books on ferro cement construction, but they are probably out of print as the method was most popular in the '70s. You will need a steel mesh armature (other materials possible) to hold things together. What is your time scale for getting this done? I can find some information but it will be buried in my archives. Not sure why I get to be a junior member at 68

[Robert Brasted]

I'll be away for a few days but will dig out enough info for you to get started, over the weekend, and let you have it next week. Back in 1977 we designed a 9 metre canoe in ferro for fisheries work off the coat of Africa. One of the books I remember was written by Jay Benford so may still be available from his organisation. He's in the US so you should be able to track him down

[coyotecoast]

There is an actual website dedicated to concrete canoes (www.ConcreteCanoe.org)
Or Some Variation, I read early Canoes weighed nearly 200# but with the newer designs using a Slurry of Cement and Microballoons and even Carbon Fibre to make some of them Weight as little as 75 #

Mike McV
Coyote Coast

[AmbitiousAmatur]

Originally Posted by Luciano

Greeeeat….. 1/8” thick…. That is really good… I’ve built a mold out of Styrofoam, but I’m not sure how would I be able to build those matched molds. Is 17’ a standard length for canoes?


Thanks

Luciano

Alumilite company makes a silicon moldmaking gel that sets rather quickly and should work for concrete as well. The most important thing will be your mix. You want the right balance of weight but rigidity. I do know that we fit five people and gear in a Coleman Plastic 15ft Ram-x if you are looking for inspiration for shape. It was only floating 4 inches out of the water, but we made it back to the docks. Best of luck

http://www.ask.com/bar?q=alumilite&p...umilite.com%2F

[Submarine Tom]

Ambitious,

Check the date on the thread you responded to...

With any luck, Luciano has graduated by now.