Concept for radical water speed record rocket boat

[FranklinRatliff]

Attached is a drawing made in 1987 by racecar constructor and rocket engine builder Arvil Porter describing his ultralight ultrasmall concept for a rocket water speed record boat. The drawing represents an over 300 mph vehicle with an empty weight of perhaps 1,000 lbs. Also attached are an article about a dragster that used a rocket system and 5,000 lbs thrust motor built by Porter, as well as photos of a small 1,500 lbs thrust rocket dragster Porter built with an empty weight of only 500 lbs.

[gonzo]

There are some other threads on the subject. The shock waves will create a huge amount of turbulence forward. That will combine with the bow wave. That design doesn't have anything to keep it from flying. Boats operate in a liquid/gas boundary. Because they are both fluid, the design needs to be very different from one that operates on a solid/gas boundary.

[FranklinRatliff]

Originally Posted by gonzo

There are some other threads on the subject. The shock waves will create a huge amount of turbulence forward. That will combine with the bow wave. That design doesn't have anything to keep it from flying. Boats operate in a liquid/gas boundary. Because they are both fluid, the design needs to be very different from one that operates on a solid/gas boundary.

"Nothing to keep it flying"? You mean aside from the front canard wings, the T-tail, no air trap and a narrow low lift fuselage? And what bow wave? It wouldn't be riding on the bow.

[FranklinRatliff]

Notice in the attached photo how Donald Campbell's Bluebird is riding on the small ski on the trailing end of the sponson, not the sponson itself.

[gonzo]

At supersonic speed there will be a bow wave even if the boat is far from the surface. The shock wave breaks window when planes pass at several hundred feet away.

[FranklinRatliff]

Originally Posted by gonzo

At supersonic speed there will be a bow wave even if the boat is far from the surface. The shock wave breaks window when planes pass at several hundred feet away.

Where in the world did you get the idea a supersonic vehicle was being discussed? It was explicitly stated this was an over 300 mph concept that would weigh perhaps 1,000 lbs empty. No where did I say an over 700 mph concept. Simply because a vehicle is rocket powered doesn't mean it has a Mach 1 potential.

[Chris Ostlind]

So, Franklin...

Perhaps you could be so kind as to provide a fundamental explanation of how the rocket powered vehicle, as pictured, would be going about it's business? A primer of sorts, if you will.

There are lots of us who are not aficionados of this style of craft and your knowledge could be most instructional for us.


Chris

[FranklinRatliff]

Originally Posted by Chris Ostlind

So, Franklin...

Perhaps you could be so kind as to provide a fundamental explanation of how the rocket powered vehicle, as pictured, would be going about it's business? A primer of sorts, if you will.

There are lots of us who are not aficionados of this style of craft and your knowledge could be most instructional for us.


Chris

There is no "this style of craft" because Porter's concept is unique.

It's based around the principle that if you build a boat capable of multiple-g acceleration that's light enough you don't need big sponsons to get it out of the water. That's why I made it a point to mention the likely weight would only be about 1,000 pounds.

The rocket dragster pictures should have given you an idea of the relative size of the craft.

With the example of Donald Campbell's Bluebird you were shown how once a fullsize hydroplane gets out of the water it can supported by a small pair of skis.

[Chris Ostlind]

Bluebird... Turbo-jet engine
Porter's mini-dragster thingamajig... rocket powered

This is all about hot gasses being forced through a narrow nozzle to create thrust is it not? The purpose of the exercise is to demonstrate speed over water on tiny skis, is it not? And you say they are not a style of craft?

Perhaps hair splitting is more your style than stepping-up when someone asks, nicely, for a small amount of your obviously classy knowledge in the pursuit of more information.

Please, Franklin, there's no real reason to cop the attitude on this. The press (and your instant self-importance) isn't exactly beating a path to your door on the issue, now, are they?

This is truly obscure and goofy stuff, Frank, and with you being so obtuse about the way you dispense the info, it's probably gonna stay that way.

Ya, think, maybe, that a different, more friendly, approach would get more mileage (and interest) from the potential readers here?

[FranklinRatliff]

Originally Posted by Chris Ostlind

Bluebird... Turbo-jet engine
Porter's mini-dragster thingamajig... rocket powered

This is all about hot gasses being forced through a narrow nozzle to create thrust is it not? The purpose of the exercise is to demonstrate speed over water on tiny skis, is it not? And you say they are not a style of craft?

Perhaps hair splitting is more your style than stepping-up when someone asks, nicely, for a small amount of your obviously classy knowledge in the pursuit of more information.

Please, Franklin, there's no real reason to cop the attitude on this. The press (and your instant self-importance) isn't exactly beating a path to your door on the issue, now, are they?

This is truly obscure and goofy stuff, Frank, and with you being so obtuse about the way you dispense the info, it's probably gonna stay that way.

Ya, think, maybe, that a different, more friendly, approach would get more mileage (and interest) from the potential readers here?

"This is all about hot gasses being forced through a narrow nozzle to create thrust is it not? The purpose of the exercise is to demonstrate speed over water on tiny skis, is it not? And you say they are not a style of craft?"

Blow it out your barracks bag. The first thing you forgot to notice, dumbass, is my name isn't ARVIL PORTER. A person with a brain might have figured out from that the person I'm promoting ISN'T ME.

There is no style of high speed planing craft that dispenses with conventional sponsons entirely and depends exclusively on tiny skis.

Bluebird was a three-point hydroplane, but if you'd bothered to look at the photos of Lee Taylor's Discovery II rocket boat you would've noticed the mere fact it also rode on three points still didn't mean it behaved anything remotely like Bluebird.

Only an idiot, the clueless or the ignorant would think it's "hairsplitting" to note these were totally different configurations that behave in completely different ways.

Originally Posted by Chris Ostlind

This is truly obscure and goofy stuff, Frank...

Up to the same old stuff in a different thread with a different poster,huh? You must be the chief anti-techno of this forum I guess, right Ostlind? First on-deck movable ballast on sailboats was goofy now this--maybe your way of looking at technology is goofy,ya think??!!

[Frosty]

Franks 'goofy' outlook maybe just whats required here. I would imagine one needs to be --well you know I bit different to go for this stuff.

I beleive that Donald was an extremely difficult character.

Many people have difficulty in putting thier ideas forward and explaining things.

People that do this sort of thing are not the run of the mill, and if thats whats required than Frank may just have it.

[Chris Ostlind]

Originally Posted by jack frost

... I would imagine one needs to be --well you know a bit different... People that do this sort of thing are not the run of the mill, and if that's what's required, then Frank may just have it.

Yes, it would appear so. And so, it would appear, does our esteemed techno boy, Doug Lord.

Two friggin' peas in a pod. Obtuse, obsessed and out of touch with the niceties of interpersonal communication.

Go look again, Pod Boys. I asked Ol' Franklin to kindly share his expertise. Instead, Frank gets up on his back legs and formulates a rant.

Nice style, there guys. When are you two movin' in together?

The Odd Couple of boatdesign. "Franklin, you look fabulous in that yummy red cotton thing today."

" Why thank you Douglas. I just adore that lavender crushed velour warm-up suit of yours."



Somebody get me outta here.

[FranklinRatliff]

Back in 1980, Arvil Porter and I discussed setting a speed record for submarines as a way of establishing credibility for future larger scale projects. We had started on construction of the propulsion system for a rocket submarine with an intended top speed of 50 to 80 mph when the skyrocketing cost of 90% hydrogen peroxide made the cost of taking the project further prohibitive. What we didn't know, and which nobody in the west knew either, was on the other side of world Soviet engineers were building rocket torpedos that by incorporating the supercavitation principle could go 200 mph. I have sometimes wondered if we had pursued the rocket submarine whether that might in the long run have proven more beneficial to us than the rocket car for the World Land Speed Record we wanted to do.

[FranklinRatliff]

Originally Posted by Chris Ostlind

Yes, it would appear so. And so, it would appear, does our esteemed techno boy, Doug Lord.

Two friggin' peas in a pod. Obtuse, obsessed and out of touch with the niceties of interpersonal communication.

Go look again, Pod Boys. I asked Ol' Franklin to kindly share his expertise. Instead, Frank gets up on his back legs and formulates a rant.

Nice style, there guys. When are you two movin' in together?

The Odd Couple of boatdesign. "Franklin, you look fabulous in that yummy red cotton thing today."

" Why thank you Douglas. I just adore that lavender crushed velour warm-up suit of yours."



Somebody get me outta here.

Ever see "Melvin Purvis" starring Ben Johnson?

"I didn't think I'd take him alive so I didn't much try."

That's the attitude some of us have about trying to explain anything to an idiot.