Coastal Cruiser

interesting how far you've come with the idea Rick

I was thinking about the wind turbine

in order to reduce drag and enhance efficiency how about a pop up vertical wind turbine
the virtical turbines loose no energy to readjusting themselves to alterations in wind direction
and I would think a pop up version could be developed that retracts out of the way when not is use

anyway great stuff you have come up with
cheers
B

 

I have been interested in Jay Benford's 'Friday Harbor ferry yacht' concept http://www.benford.us/index.html?lists.html

The 24' version has massive accommodation for a relatively small craft. Blending your thoughts with Jay's would be an interesting project. Jay has his accommodation right to the edges of the hull... the 26' goes right to the bow...see also the pilothouse/stateroom configuration (dual use, simple, and relatively low profile).

Using your hull concepts and eliminating the donk in favour of solar/wind/electric propulsion or even small 4stroke outboard in a well one could keep accommodation even lower.

Add your self righting factor (e.g. batteries low down in a 'box keel') and your other energy related concepts... Blend all the above with a simpler building method such as described in origamiboats (not necessarily in metals),and we would end up with a highly affordable and desirable coastal cruiser.

I would be keenly interested in building a boat with a blend of these characteristics.
Harry Tams

 

I wonder if you can take the trubine down for bad weather. What if you get into some really bad seas that are going to roll you over or maybe even tumble you?
Will your turbine last through something like that. How about the Solar panels and the Batteries. Are they going to stand some rough treatment?

I'll agree is a smooth looking and cheap to power craft. I think you have a worlds record going there if you dont run into real cold water and no sun or wind.

 

a friend of mine has a glider rigged with a pop up engine
couple of doors open up behind the canopy and up swings this lawnmower engine sized thing with a blade on it

I immediately thought of it seeing Ricks first pictures posted

I though a pop up vertical turbine could have folding or even inflatable vanes and hide away beneath a disk that doubles as the hatch cover when stowed with only the central shaft sticking up
the disk could ride up the shaft and extend the vanes into the wind and all mechanical and electronics would stay beneath in the hull as low as possible

thought I'd throw another into the fray since Im on a role here
you know that memory metal they use in those foil car windshield shades
the light weight cloth vanes could use something similar to "pop" into place and then fold neatly back down when the wind isn't cooperating
the stiffer the vanes the better
although the inflatable ones could double as a self writing mechanism in a pinch

 

I have only considered rigid mounting of panels without tracking. This should be OK for cruising in tropical and subtropical areas. In higher latitudes there is a lot of wasted area if it is not aligned to sun.

I have looked at Melbourne in winter months and it is poor. I was assuming it would be worse in Tasmania but have not looked at the data.

There is radiation energy data for most areas. One slight benefit is that there is reflected energy on water.

This is part of the reason why I am thinking of a day boat. It would have enough battery to go say 100nm on battery and would not rely much on the solar panels. Using something like this I get a good feel for how much energy can be realistically recovered from the sun.

Rick W

 

Bert
There is a fellow in the US who will modify Sunpower panels with a lighter protective layer. I have considered this but not to the point of getting a quote.

The weight of the standard Sunpower panels is NOT prohibitive. To put it in perspective I can push a 120kg boat along at 6kts all day. The engine weighs 70kg and puts out 120 to 130W. You can get something like 1kW of Sunpower solar panels for the same weight. So it is much better than me considering power to weight. Providing the sun is shining. However it does not stop to take a leak or eat.

Rick

 

I have actually made and tested a turbine in a mechanical drive. It was rated around 1kW at 10m/s wind - remember this could be apparent wind. Just to prove its efficiency I connected it to a prop and it made steady progress to windward even in light wind:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCN2MlbVJG0
Just proves it provides a net gain. It would work better where it can work at the optimum output independent of what the boat is doing. It would just charge the batteries. So slight increase in transmission losses but improved power recovery.

The turbine is 2-bladed with blades nominally 1m long and 0.1m chord. So they do not present a large area when stalled. Would need a method of braking to stall in strong winds. Nothing different to what modern wind turbines are designed to do.

I did test it in heavy wind but it was quite scary being as close as I was to the prop. The spider used to manually turn the turbine to face the wind followed my first trial. The boat did not go any faster because the prop would aerate and just churn to foam going up wind. It was like riding a bucking horse as the prop bit and let go. The spider enabled me to feather the prop by turning it off the wind as I was approaching the shore or if the boat was being overpowered.

Rick W

 

Harry
This idea only works with light boats if you want a reasonable speed. By light I mean anything over 1000kg is on the heavy side.

It is also desirable to have it streamline. I can give exact numbers if you like but as a rough indication I put as much effort into the wind as the water in 40kph wind in a pedal boat. So if deck and the superstructure are not streamline they will consume a huge proportion of the power in a decent breeze. In really strong winds the power will be expended in just holding position. The red pedal boat is designed to make way in 60kts. It has low windage and a large swept area with the prop giving plenty of grip and thrust for power. It actually has lower windage than an open pedal boat that has 25% of the weight.

The boat really needs to be designed from bottom up. You need to decide what speed you want to achieve, in what conditions and what accommodation is acceptable. Then see if the concept has merit in that set of requirements.

The 24' version of the Benford boat is 4t. I am thinking of a 40ft boat with total displacement around 1t. This is possible but it means you are not going to have plush carpets, timber furnishing and many other amenities common in recreational boats. You may not want to leave it bumping against rocks or an old pier for a few hours either.

Rick W

 

Thanks Rick

The Benford boat is traditional and heavy. I'm thinking that with your concepts, coupled with together with 'modern' materials and building methods, that the 1 tonne goal could be achieved.

The accommodation could be similar in size to 'Friday Harbor Ferry' and be of simple design with everything having aesthetic form and preferably, functions. From a design perspective "less is more". It would be minimalist but sufficient if not comfortable. It would (I hope) not look at all like boats as we know them (carpet rots and smells).

The Benford look can't work, but I believe the accommodation arrangements are possible. What are your thoughts?

Harry

 

Hi Rick, there is still an influx of photons coming onto your solarpanels, even if there is partly overcast. However I had a system whereby the 36 cell panels were switched in series with another panel and gave enough energy to charge a 12 Volt battery system. Yes, the overall power is reduced, but at least it charged the battery. Something to consider?

 

Harry
I believe around 13m, say 40ft, you can get comfortable accommodation and quite a fast boat up to maybe 10kts.

With the original boat I got into quite a lot of detail. At that stage I was only considering lead/acid batteries and fibreglass. With 1 person the total displacement was 1100kg. There was also some extra weight for having parts that made it trailerable. It was longer than 13m as well but not as much cabin.

For something with nice cabin spaces, walk-through full head height, a small aft cockpit and lightweight amenities for a family of four you need around 13m. As noted, design displacement is 1t. A challenge but not impossible with modern materials. Note that the hull shape does not have large flat areas so it has some inherent strength. It would not be prone to pounding with the entry I have in mind. More inclined to go through waves when pressed rather than over them.

The red boat has already demonstrated this tendency in 4 to 5ft steep chop whipped up by strong wind over a relatively short fetch.

The power required to achieve passage making speed on these hulls is hard to believe but it is why you see things like the LCS:
http://www.austal.com/go/news-and-images/video?A=lcs2independence
The speed is deceptive as well. It is doing around 40kts. Note the lack of large waves in the wake but still in displacement mode.

For the 13m 1t boat speed for power would be:
8kts 1060W
10kts 2200W
13kts 5kW
17kts 9.2kW
I have electric motors weighing 11kg good for 4.5kW continuous and peak of 9kW.

My evolution in ideas is from trying to get stability into a slender hull to having a single cabin on a stabilised monohull. Not surprisingly companies like Austal are developing the concept for commercial applications:
http://www.austal.com/files/delivery/270_Data_sheet_.pdf
When you scale this ferry it is not too far removed from what I am proposing at 13m. Scale weight about twice what I am doing but quite a lot more power as well. I expect it would be close in hull shape other than the transom for the jets. I can get better efficiency with a big prop as I am not worried about the draft. I might also give a bit more rocker in the bow to try to avoid nose dives in following seas. It is a tendency I do not like in the pedal boats when driving down waves in a following sea.

A reason for the day boat idea is to test seaworthiness at speed in heavy conditions. I already have established that the stabilisers are best set aft and I have ideas to avoid the bow diving but I need to test them.

Rick W

 

Thanks Rick. The information posted so far is helping me a lot with my own project. I am still waiting for NZ to post me the plans. I am getting a little worried, It is paid for in December and we are now at the end of January.

From the above powerratings quoted, I add another 20 % for my monohull 18 feet boat, as it will not be as efficient as yours. As you know, I am not going for super efficiency, but I am happy for the average good solid design.

I was also considering a "variable" turbine vertical type of generator. But I am strugling to come up with the easy, during hard winds, type of adjustement.

I have a few ideas, but have to make a few trial prototypes first.

I will definitely go for some folding up solar panels and also some reflectors.

Bert

 

the vertical wind turbines have the advantage of being inherently more stable than the horizontal axis ones as they dont swing around with every change in wind direction
so there is just less stress on the system.
making a pop up version whether through folding or collapsing vanes or just having it drop down into a compartment shouldn't be that hard I wouldn't think
I know of at least one that claims it can tolerate winds of up to 100 mph
but it has metal blades with a squirrel cage type set up and a support for the top of the axis of rotation
not real light weight or conducive to a pop up model

best of luck with that
B

 

Vertical wind turbines are less noisy as well as safer in their close proximity. They also limit their rotation speed when turbulence in the veins become enough and do not run away like the horizontal turbines does. The drawback is to make it strong you have to support the verticle axle top and bottom.

I've had the idea of making one that folds around the mast so the mast runs through it, but haven't done anything on paper to see if it can still be efficient enough.

 

Thanks, Boston and Fanie, it strengthens my faith in vertical turbines..

Rick, would something like the very wild attached sketch be a possible solution ?. Something at the aft, reasonable large to get enough energy 2 or 3 Kw, which folds up when lowered via a "Cone shaft" and reduces the windresistance and turning speed when neccessary. I am thinking aloud now, without much engineering thoughts behind it. Sorry for my previous question, I figured out what CF stands for, Carbon Foil, Carbon Fibre, Carbon Fabrics, whatever carbon.

Bert