Classe 950 v. GP33

[jli99itt]

I am researching a boat to build, race and am looking at the GP33 or the Class 950. I am leaning towards the 950 since it's rules lean towards inexpensive build i also like the beamier boat and twin rudders.
Thoughts and suggestions?

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by jli99itt

I am researching a boat to build, race and am looking at the GP33 or the Class 950. I am leaning towards the 950 since it's rules lean towards inexpensive build i also like the beamier boat and twin rudders.
Thoughts and suggestions?

What will you be using the boat for?

If you plan to primarily race in SD you should opt for the GP33. The 950 will not do well in light, lumpy buoy racing in SD.

If you want to do singlehanded Transpac maybe the 950 will be better.

You could talk to Bruce or Greg at Nelson/Marek. They designed the first of the GP33s.

[fcfc]

Originally Posted by jli99itt

inexpensive build
Thoughts and suggestions?

Ouch ....

Both rules allow carbon mast with rod riging.
Keel strut in welded steel.

GP 33 sail area 65m², 8 sails, 40m² mainsail all materials allowed.
CL 950 , sail area 80 m² , 8 sails, 50m² top sqare mainsail, but only polyester.

The difference on hull is that GP 33 allow carbon and not CL 950. But both allow oven cured infused epoxy over some airex/corecell.

So both are not at all inexpensive. First and foremost would be to check price of a racing sail set , carbon mast , rod rigging and a welded high strengh steel keel strut. You are likely to reach 100 000$ on only those items.

The real main difference is that CL 950 is OSR1 (ocean) and has 1.80m headroom over 2m², and that GP33 only ask for OSR3 (daysailer for relatively protected waters) and with 1.46m of virtual headroom over 0.6m².

[jli99itt]

I will do a lot of San Diego racing but i also would like to to do open ocean single hand or crew of two, maybe even a season in europe against other 950's. I would probably do a plywood build with an alum mast and a carbon boom. I have put it out to NM, Farr, Dudley Dix, Pierre Rolland and others we will see who all steps up. FCFC you pretty much clinched it with the OSR3 rating, Thanks.

So Class 950, here we go... Now

How much of a disadvantage is a amateur built plywood hull v. Airex/corecell?
Alum mast v. Carbon (class 950 only allows a certain tpe of carbon)
Can I win with a amateur build? I know i can have fun!
maybe just build a 650?
thank you for all your thoughts

[fcfc]

Get a quote for a correct racing sail set from a decent sailmaker:

1 top square mainsal 50m².
2 jibs 30m² (one with reef).
3 asymetrical spinnaker (around 130m²)

Post the figures sailmakers answered.

Production class 9.50 run around 100 000€ base price from yard. On the start line, they cost 150-170 000€.

NB For mini 6.50, base price from yard for production boats is 40 000€. On the start line, around 70 000€. Prototypes are over 150 000€.

[luckystrike]

Originally Posted by jli99itt

I would probably do a plywood build with an alum mast and a carbon boom.

So Class 950, here we go... Now

How much of a disadvantage is a amateur built plywood hull v. Airex/corecell?
Alum mast v. Carbon (class 950 only allows a certain tpe of carbon)
Can I win with a amateur build? I know i can have fun!
maybe just build a 650?
thank you for all your thoughts

I'would go with the Class 950, as the IMS influenced hulls of the GP 33 need a lot of crew as ballast to sail well (please correct me if I'am wrong).

Open Class 950:
I think the Class 950 hulls make a more usefull boat to be sailed with crew or shorthanded effectivly, cruising or racing. A GP 33 will do this wide spread not so good.

I'am not complete in the class rules but I think displacement is settled at min. 2700kg and keelwheight and -depth is also limited. This should it make possible to build a competitive boat from wood. Looking at the modern forms of today's Open Boats, my preference would be ply above the chine and strip-plank with glass reinforcement under. That will do a very cost effective boat. Perhaps a interesting job for Dudley Dix, who is very experienced with fast wooden open boats.

As there is a minimum and maximum measure for the righting moment on top of the mast, perhaps a aluminium mast is also competitive.

Grrreetings from the North Sea Coast, Michel

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by jli99itt

I will do a lot of San Diego racing but i also would like to to do open ocean single hand or crew of two, maybe even a season in europe against other 950's. I would probably do a plywood build with an alum mast and a carbon boom. I have put it out to NM, Farr, Dudley Dix, Pierre Rolland and others we will see who all steps up. FCFC you pretty much clinched it with the OSR3 rating, Thanks.

So Class 950, here we go... Now

How much of a disadvantage is a amateur built plywood hull v. Airex/corecell?
Alum mast v. Carbon (class 950 only allows a certain tpe of carbon)
Can I win with a amateur build? I know i can have fun!
maybe just build a 650?
thank you for all your thoughts

If the majority of your sailing is going to be in SD you are going to get pounded by the local sportboats when sailing the 950.

If you do a plywood build with alum mast you will be pounded by the higher tech 950s if you ever sail against them.

If you want to have the Euro experience you can probably charter a 650 for a season first to see how it works out before deciding to build a white elephant.

[Milan]

For open-classes-types-yachts, French designers have most experience.

Here are just two of them, (there are more), that use ply:

http://web.me.com/davidreard/david_r...onocoques.html
http://hensevalyd-english.jimdo.com/

[u4ea32]

I think Paul B nailed it.

[u4ea32]

For open classes, they will soon be scows, and considered so ugly the classes will die quickly.

[billybobobrain]

I have been reasurching the 950 almost sense the begining of the class, The rules clearly state that any prepreg layup is forbiden so oven cured prepreg is a no go, its hand layup for the 950. If you have the knowledge foam core would be a cost effective way to go. Because of the weight restrictions and the balence point rule the boats with carbon masts as opposed to aluminum are just wasting money there is no advantage. you have to build a carbon mast that is just as heavy as an aluminum mast so that the boat will balance.

[billybobobrain]

sorry to wake a dead thread, didt realize it was 2011 already...