Is It Cheaper To Motor Or Sail

[masalai]

From the advice I have received and what I can ascertain, about the same depending on your preferences...
Sail at 4 knots or motor at 20knots? - definately sail...
Motor at 6 to 8 knots or sail as fast as insanely possible? - then motor is the way to go

I should be able to motor at 1 mile per litre of fuel but my range would be limited to several hundred miles as a 5 tonne boat overloaded with an additional tonne (1200 litres of fuel) would be a "bit of a wallow" until the fuel got mostly used...

[WestVanHan]

Originally Posted by dskira

West you like your comfort
I can't blame you.
take a lot of ressource.
Daniel

I happen to enjoy:
-not smelling like a hobo,nor looking like one
-non-rotten and good food
-relaxing in a comfortable place & sleeping well
-and other basic things

And they don't need to take a lot of ressource if one is resourceful...

[Boston]

bingo
smelling like you just stepped out of a life boat after a few weeks adrift is not what Im interested in doing with my retirement
I want clean cloths a dry place to sleep a decent place to live and some good beer from time to time. I want beer cold the bed warm and fresh socks available at all times.

fishing off the back porch might be kinda nice as well

careful planing and some good advice later and I should be able to get it right first time around

fingers crossed

oh
looks like silicon bronze fasteners are the only way to go
was hoping something new had come along but oh well

cheers
B

[masalai]

Yes Boston, there is a better fastner, - - made under the trade ? name - "Monel" - We used monel nails when I was a kid (56 years ago) and we made 'sort-of-sail-boards' out of marine ply skins and 4" x 3/4" pine - - carefully painted inside and out worked very well... otherwise use either epoxy of the other 2 part marine adhesive, and wood that it works well with such as powlina/kiri...

I must apologise to TollyWally and others in the "Nom de Plume Syndrome" thread as it seems that thread is closed... I hope I was not the prime cause... Wally feel free to debate the issues there whenever... Only one word I cannot abide as it insults mothers...

[masalai]

One Must have, - - for cruising, is the ability to "make" potable water - Reverse Osmosis seems to be the best option...

I am looking at a FULLY MANUAL system as that ensures there is less to go wrong and forces one to monitor the process thereby ensuring reliability and endurance is self assured... meaning look after it and you will have good water, lazy and slack - no water... Too easy... 2 x 40inch membrane & cannisters, 2 T valves, 1 stop valve, 1 salt water strainer, 1 boost pump, 3 changeable filter element holders 20micron and 2 x 5micron filters, High pressure pump, pressure control valve, high pressure gauge, and a flow gauge for the final product... Done, - if you know the order and pipes to effect the task of fresh flush in regular use and a cleaning storage intake for storage longer than 3 days...

SYSTEM OPERATION INSTRUCTIONS
The reverse osmosis membrane contains a preservative solution to prevent microbiological growth. If ingested, may cause irritation of the gastro-intestinal tract, Colic, diarrhea, or other similar symptoms. Therefore, discard all the product water for at least thirty minutes of initial operation, after storage before drinking or before use in food preparations! Do not operate the system using contaminated feed water sources (oil, chlorine or other chemicals as that "kills" the membrane immediately).

- - - - - - - - - - Have you filled the high-pressure pump with the proper amount of oil (SAE90 gearbox oil) center of show glass or check dipstick?
1) Open the seawater intake valve (sea cock).
2) Open the pressure control valve, on the control panel, all the way counter-clockwise.
- - - - - - - - - - Caution: Never start the system with the high-pressure control valve closed.
3) Set the cleaning/storage valve to the pre filter position.
4) Set the diverter valve to sample position.
5) Switch on the boost pump (optional).
6) Switch on the high pressure pump.
7) Flush the air out of the system.
- - - - - - - - - - Check the brine discharge at the output location.
- - - - - - - - - - Caution: Never allow any leaks in your hose or tube connections.
8) Close the pressure control valve slowly clockwise to allow air bubbles to work themselves out of the system.
9) Adjust the water pressure to 900 psi on the pressure gauge in the control panel. If you operate the watermaker in brackish or lake water adjust the working pressure not to exceed the specified product water rate.
- - - - - - - - - - Caution: If the system is operated in brackish water, the fresh water flow shall not exceed the specified value.
10) Taste the product water at your sample station or check the quality with the optional TDS meter. If the water is pure, switch the diverter valve to fill your storage tank.

SYSTEM SHUT DOWN PROCEDURE
1) Switch the diverter valve to sample station.
2) Open the pressure control valve all the way counter-clockwise.
3) Switch off the electric motor and the boost pump (if installed).
4) Close the seawater intake valve.

FRESH WATER FLUSH PROCEDURE
If you don’t use your watermaker for the next three days, you will need to flush your system with fresh water or infuse a biocide solution. - - The fresh water flush prepares your watermaker for a shut down period of ten days maximum.
1) Open the pressure control valve all the way counter clock wise.
2) Close the seawater intake valve or switch the cleaning/storage valve to the closed position.
3) Open the fresh water flush valve. Your vessel’s fresh water pump should now turn on. For the next flush procedure, test how long it takes until the brine at the outlet becomes fresh. Allow fresh water to flow until all salt water is flushed out of the RO System.
4) Open the seawater intake valve and switch the cleaning/storage valve to the seawater position. Allow fresh water to flow until all salt water is flushed out of the pre-filter(s), boost pump and the sea strainer (approximately 30 seconds, depending on the flow rate of your vessel’s fresh water pump).
5) Close the seawater intake valve.

MEMBRANE STORAGE PROCEDURE
If you intend to store your watermaker for more than ten days, growth of microorganism will degrade the RO membrane(s) performance. The RO membrane(s) should be flushed with a biocide solution. This will preserve the membrane for long-term storage of up to one year.
1. If you have installed the optional fresh water flush system, back flush the pre-filter(s), the boost pump and the sea strainer with fresh water and remove the pre-filter cartridge(s). Close the seawater intake valve (sea cock).
2. In a clean plastic container, mix 2.5 gallons / 10 litres of un-chlorinated fresh water with 100 grams (1/3 container) of Echo Tec. Preservative # 3 (Metabisulfite).
3. Switch the three-way valve to the cleaning/storage position. Switch the diverter valve to the sample position.
4. Open the pressure control valve all the way anti-clockwise.
5. Use a funnel (avoiding air to enter the system) to pour the solution into the cleaning/storage hose or lead the hose into the elevated plastic container while running the high-pressure pump. When the solution has been infused, switch off the
watermaker.
Under best conditions your watermaker is now prepared for a shut down period of ten months. Discard the product water for at least thirty minutes of initial operation, after storage, before drinking or before use in food preparations.

[masalai]

I am toying with the idea of using a "domestic gourney" or whatever you call those high pressure cleaning pump systems... Must have an adequate flow rate as not only will my setup produce 160 litres/hour the system also has to use quite a considerable rate of flow to take the extra salts and other contaminants away... Another point is to use the bronze or stainless pump as cast iron on the cheaper sets will not last... in $Au around $1500.00 I think and using around 1800Watt electric or 3hp petrol motor.??..

The "gourney" will facilitate bottom cleaning (make sure the pump still has pre-filters and boost pump and the wash down does not get recycled through the high pressure pump...

Any comments?

[Tad]

I have a big oil cookstove you can have for cheap...currently it wants $4/day on the very lowest setting......wood is free and all over the beach. We have two wood stoves aboard, one airtight heater and the other the big household cookstove in the galley.

A hydraulic anchor windlass is a lovely thing.....it's also about 1/4 of your building budget. You can buy a used manual SL Sea Tiger for $400 on Craigslist. Good chain will cost you $1000, the 66lb "bluce" claw is $200.

Washing machines, dryers, generators, watermakers.....none are necessary. Clean fresh water comes out of the sky up here....almost all the time. Tanks are big expense...even if you build them of plywood and epoxy they take many hours to get right and materials are expensive. Used plastic barrels are cheap and do the job.

[WestVanHan]

Hope you're considering a swim platform of some sort.
Maybe permanent,maybe a swing up unit.

Also very convenient for ocean kayaks and gives the otters easy access to check you out.

[Boston]

good thinking Tad
my feelings exactly
I want simplicity and ease of repair in basic materials

I also had thought that fresh water in that area would not be an issue

Westy yes
I am thinking of a platform off the back
that and a little door to get to it from
still working on the floor plan ( my eraser is getting quite a work out ) but will post soonest

oh
yes i had the same thought
an oil cook stove and two wood stoves as well as the diesel engine for back up heat
interesting that we both came up with the two stove option rather than a forced air system although one good stove will heat the whole thing its a mater of getting the heat evenly dispersed

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by Tad

Clean fresh water comes out of the sky up here....almost all the time.

And what you need water anyway for.. Dirty clothes keep the females away as rhum the flukes.. and sailors happy

[Boston]

Im planning on an all female crew
bathing is a must
mater of fact I just drew in a really nice master shower

[masalai]

Then you better reconfigure as a catamaran as the ladies will get really pissed if the boat rock&rolls too much and they fall over in the shower and break a finger nail, let alone anything else?

[Boston]

ladies are going to be even more pissed off if I cant flip em over right side up in a pinch

[WestVanHan]

Originally Posted by Boston

ladies are going to be even more pissed off if I cant flip em over right side up in a pinch

If they're that heavy you can't flip em over,well, um....oh just forget it.

[Boston]

was kinda a play on the catamaran theme there Westy
no chance in hell my little friend would cooperate with much beyond a filly

that and you gotta remember Im trying to keep the boat light