Canoe to tri?

[logan944t]

Hi -- new guy with a few questions I cant seem to find the answer to.


I currently fish in a 16' canoe ( fiberglass--beam is 36" )with an ama ( located about 24" outboard) attached amidship with 2 spars. I currently have a 3.5 hp outboard hanging off the port side--aft. It works well for fishing in St Andrews bay ( fla ) but Im looking to modify this design over the winter to correct a few problems.

The first problem is that the canoe has no keel ( yes, it did oilcan until I added ribs inside), some rocker and when Im underway the prop has to be pointed several degrees off of centerline to maintain a straight path--which is more irritating more than anything.

The second problem is weight. With the motor ( 27 pounds) and I (250) located aft the freeboard is reduced to about 4 "...which is quite exciting trying to come about with 12" waves or boat wakes.

Im interested in reconfiguring the canoe to a trimaran design but with the amas ( long and thin) located more aft with the aft ends after the stern. All the tris I see have the amas located within the length of the bow to stern measurement and was wondering why?

I would also like to modify the stern of the canoe to have a transom to locate the motor in a central place for even weight distribution. With this design the amas would support the weight of the motor and I --making the canoe better balanced. I hate to use star wars references -- but it would look like a "y-wing fighter".

I need a shallow draft because I live on a bayou and that provides access to the bay and fish in shallow water -- altho I also venture out past the confines of the bay--hence the desire for the ama's as well.

Thanks for any replies.

[ancient kayaker]

You didn’t say which side the ama is mounted so I’ll assume the same as the motor - port. You also didn’t say which way the motor has to be offset for a straight path; this would identify if it is the offset thrust of the motor or the offset drag of the ama which has the most effect.

The stern would be down with the motor well aft and you located aft to steer. My inclination would be to move the motor further forward - there is no reason it has to be fully aft - and adjust the ama position to balance both the offset weight and thrust of the motor. The motor should still steer although a forward skeg might improve matters. Or consider a tiller extension so you can sit amidships; maybe a short length of rubber hose and a dowel would provide both steering and throttle control; to be on the safe side have a motor cutoff within reach.

If you install a transom the stern will still be down, and since a typical canoe tends to be designs for maximum waterline length, the transom would behave like a board dragged across the water and create drag and noise. I suggest that you have the smallest transom that will just mount the motor, sloped forward if possible so it tapers to a point at water level - canoe stern shape permitting - and rig remote steering and throttle controls.

However, if you are willing to modify the boat to the extent of adding a transom, instead you could install a motor well on the centerline, astern of the center seat. The boat will balance with either one or two aboard if you reverse direction, just as when paddling. This symmetrical arrangement would be more compatible with a tri, although sponsons would be lighter and more compact and should provide enough added stability. A “filler box” can lowered into the well to reduce drag for paddling - it doesn’t have to seal out the water. If you go for a central motor location, obviously you will need rudder steering.



BTW the reason why tri-canoe amas are mostly located forward is probably because it interferes less with paddling.

[logan944t]

That was quick --thank you.

I rarely paddle--maybe to dock or to use the paddle as a pole in skinny water.

The ama is on the other side of the boat from the motor.

The offset of the motor Im not sure about. I have to turn the tiller to the 2 o clock position ( motor on the port side--tiller pointed inboard towards starboard) to maintain a straight line. I did have it mounted on the same side as the ama and the boat listed more than I would have liked. When the motor is mounted on the port side ( away from the ama) the balance is such that I can lean a bit and the ama ceases to be in the water. I will have to look at the motor again to make sure where that offset is. But either way-- the tiller has to be pointed that way even when the ama is out of the water. The ama itself is --for lack of a better term --a displacement ama--short and fat. The part that is in the water ( when it is in the water) would have about the same profile as the bottom of a sailboat--minus the keel---sort of a pointed oval looking at it from the top.

The transom I was thinking to reconfigure it to a "y-back" more than a square back.

[philSweet]

Please post photos of your current setup. A couple random thoughts- Your motor is on the port side? That puts the tiller outboard and causes the prop walk and the thrust offset to both turn the boat the same way. Try motor and ama to starboard with the motor angled in under the hull and the bracket angled forwards outboard so the leg will kick up and out away from the boat. Unless you run on plane, you will want some weight forward. More than just a 12 pound mud anchor- try 50 pounds plus the anchor. That will greatly improve tracking. I have no idea how you plan to fish from a tri, though. Personally, I've always gone with a side mount bracket that I clamp on wherever and whenever needed. On open water I stood midship with a long kill lanyard and steered by leaning and dipping a pushpole. I could run just under twenty knots that way. Ended up on my head in the bow a couple times when the prop picked up some weed though.

[Wavewacker]

And, with your trailing amas in the tri configuration do you intend to burry them all the time in the water or will they be out of the water and add stability as they dip?

Have you considered decking the stern of the canoe and over the amas, so that you could stand on the deck?

[logan944t]

Have you considered decking the stern of the canoe and over the amas, so that you could stand on the deck?

This is exactly the plan-- small decks to stand on.

The amas will be in the water all the time and since they will trail I thought it would change the center of gravity a bit--even tho turning will be a lot slower as well.

[Sistrunk]

Many things to discuss, Logan. Write me a Private Message, or email.

[Wavewacker]

Let's put it all here so that everyone benefits from the discussion....

To stand on such a deck long and skinny might not work as well as shorter and a little fatter. You might as well make the deck big enough to be functional, a camper tri. I would also think the motor mount can go off the deck further back....

[logan944t]

This canoe has been thru a few different iterations. I first bought it and paddled it. Then I fabricated outriggers to locate oarlocks outboard of the frame and made oars. Then I got the motor for it.

[logan944t]

Outrigger also had a pvc/pool noodle stabilizer mounted by the oarlock. Worked well.




Oars I made to go with the oarlocks. Increased fishing range and safety in the wind but was a pain to move around the boat when I was fishing.

[Fanie]

You could also look at a catamaran setup with two canoes / kayaks. You could then add a flip up daggerboard in between the two.

I've made this contraption using two Triyaks, firstly because the triyaks can be submerged for surf use and the seating position is more comfortable for fishing as well as place to put all the rubbish fishermen drag along...

It folds up so one can tow it on a trailer.

The width is 4 meters I think, very stable. The hulls suck though, they're not designed for displacement or planing. Although it has a keel, I plan to add two daggerboards that can flip up if it hits something in the water.

At half throttle with two of us aboard we do about 12km/hr and full throttle 18km/hr. Needless to say the motor should sit behind a hull where the water drag on the motor would be less.

[logan944t]

That is dam interesting. A few weeks ago I caught a baby black tipped shark. As I threw it back I started wondering what I would do if I caught a real shark-- 70 pounds or more and 4-6 foot long. With your setup lashing the shark to the middle platform and setting off for home would be an option.

[Fanie]

Well if you get a big shark and you can keep it's head up sure, it would take you home. Even get some speed if you trail a piece of bait in front of it.

Just make sure it doesn't dive... it's going to be very crappy if you pop up every 50 meters with his buddies after your butt while submerged.

Of course if you plan to ride it like a surf board you can go bigger than 6 foot, should be a lot more exciting.

What would you do with a shark anyway ? They don't make nice pets you know...

[logan944t]

LOL! I got guts-- but I dont ride sharks.

I would eat it.

[Poida]

Fanie, that looks ingenious, and I bet it doesn't take you long to get to the other end if your pool on that.

I had a surfcat with an outboard but ended up selling it as transporting it was a hassle.