can some one show me how to design tall ship, something from like a 1700's navy fleet

[druidking]

please guide me through the steps of designing a tall ship
i love tall ships and i want to be able to design them in my free time
but i dont know where to start
i want a picture and all the stats(length, beam, etc.) with everything in between

[MattZ]

Just don't do what these people did: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasa_(ship)

[diwebb]

Hi druidking,
the term "tall ship" is nowadays a term for the sailtraining ships that travel the sea today, most of which were built in the late 19th century oe early 20th, or a replicas of vessels of that era. From what you are saying it seems that you are looking for information on ships from the 18th century. C. Nepean Longridge authored a very detailed book on HMS Victory which had all of the dimensions, details of construction, equipment, sails, rigging etc etc. There are also books on the Baltimore Schooners and many other types of vessels from that era. I suggest that you visit the library and read as much as you can find on the subject. The Greenwich Maritime museum is also a good source for information on ships of this era. Also the Liverpool Maritime Museum has a collection of ship models of all ships built by the great Liverpool shipping lines. That will give you as good a place to start as anywhere. If you then stay within the parameters of what was built in that period, you will arrive at a workable design. I am assuming that you will not be building a full size boat to the design so detailed calculations on stability etc will not be required.
All the best with the endeavour.
David

[lazeyjack]

start googling, , clippers, barques, barquentines, schooners,fully rigged ships, five masted ships,4 masted ships, three mast full rigged ships,five mast barques, six mast barques, two mast fore aft schooner, 7 mast fore aft schooner, the grain and wool clippers,brigs, brigantines the spanish fleet,drake, magellen etc, use you bloody imagination my boy, cos nobody here is 300 years old, even me

[PAR]

You don't look a day over 250 Stewart . . .

On a more serious note. You need an exceptional amount of yacht design understanding to attempt something as grand as a clipper or colonial era frigate (as examples). These are very complicated ships, requiring incredible amounts of detail. Nothing short of a well heeled designer and sailing historian could make that challenge come true. I'd be willing to try it, but the price would have to be met.

In short, you need an education. Try www.westlawn.org. or one of the other schools available for yacht design.

[lazeyjack]

aww they are not THAT Complex) I,ll work on the rig, just imagine 7 masts, this is the high bits then then there are yards of YARDS, MIND BOGGLES

[chartman]

There is an extensive library and some real ships at Mystic Seaport in CT. I have been there. It is a very nice place, plus the food was great at a conference I was at there several years ago.

You can view some of their materials from the "Research the Collections" link on their site:

Mystic Seaport
http://www.mysticseaport.org

chartman

[waikikin]

DruidK, some pretty good advice for you already here, ships from that era of sail were designed & built by people of generational experience so its gunna be a real steep learning curve for you & to design one that meets obligational survey requirements of today will require real qualifications gained through learning institution etc. I work full time as shipwright on a tall ship & there is plenty of detail to comprehend on the rigging especially although theres also standardization in mast stacks & yards as "spares" were carried in the days of sail to cover breakage, miles of running & standing rigging with even more light stuff used in the "serving" of this, also plenty of deck planking & seams to caulk as well, maybe you could build a true to scale historic model so as to gain an appreciation & understanding of the style & features of these vessels. All the best with it from Jeff.

[artemis]

To me the most graceful and fast of the naval ships of the late 1700 early 1800 period is the frigate. The frigate as a work of art did not come into it's own until that time. The British Navy tended to build for strength in action (i.e., they were heavier); the French built for graceful lines and speed (lighter but not as strong); in the USA we built (USS Constitution, et al) a ship longer than the British or French and carrying more metal (cannons). The average British/French frigate of that period was about 34 guns, mostly 18pounders - Constitution and her sisters was 42+ guns, mostly 24 pounders. She was longer but because of a design improvement known only to the American shipwright weighted less than a comparable sized HMS yet still maintained reasonable strength.

[George S]

Druidking, you may want to start with designing and building MODEL Ships. You can start by googling Conway Maritime Press. They have a book on dozens of sailing ships of many periods. Then you can visit Constitution in Boston and Mayflower II south of Plymouth Mass. all on your way to Mystic CT. On the way you can see a half sized model of a whale ship in SE Ct.
If you want to design full sized ships you need to go to School, maybe Webb or Westlawn, then you will need an angel with millions of dollars to support your dreams.
Meanwhile for a few thousand dollars you can buy kits of a frigate, brig and schooner. see <modelsailingships>

[George S]

P.S. You will also have to decide whether you are going to learn pre-computer desigh methods or the modern computer aided design. Take a look in Amazon for books on these topics.

[SViau]

Originally Posted by artemis

...t because of a design improvement known only to the American shipwright weighted less than a comparable sized HMS yet still maintained reasonable strength.

Easy...! British ships were designed to fire all guns at same time, while French and US were to fire guns in sequence not to collapse ship structure.

[George S]

Druidking. It is simple, go to the nearest library and get out whatever books it has on yacht or ship design. One good description of the process is "Yacht Design Explained ..." by S. Killinh and D. Hunter, W. W. Norton 1998 ISBN 0-393-04646 x. Also look at Amazon. Eventually you will have to decide whether to go the old fashioned route, drawing board etc or computer.

[PAR]

Actually The USS Constitution was one of 6 frigates designed by Humphrey. Constitution was one of the larger (heavy frigate) 44 gun vessels (not 42), along with USS United States (the first built) and USS President. Three other frigates were also built under the same act of congress (actually three acts to get them all built) all three of these were the "light" versions and 38 gun vessels. My the time Constitution made a name for herself, the "rate" system wasn't in common use any more. Vessels were referred to by their gun count. The heavy frigates would have been call 44's, but likely called "heavy 44's" for their power, speed and ability to absorb battle damage.

The heavy frigates typically carried 30 - 24 pounders on her gun deck in long guns, 20 to 26 - 32 pounders of carronade and a few of long gun 24's as chasers.

The differences are substantial, with the heavy frigate being 175 LWL and 2,200 ton, while the light frigates were ~140 LWL and 1,200 ton, literally half the size of their bigger sisters.

It's incorrect to assume The heavy colonial frigates weren't capable of firing broadsides, they were and did readily, though not nearly as often as the movies would have you suggest. In her engagement with HMS Guerriere, Conststution's first volley was a double load broadside, which surely would have "collapsed ship". Most skippers and gun crews had the good sense to fire as their guns came to bare, which was the logical route for accurate cannon fire. In this same engagement, Constitution repeated point blank broadsides, while the two ships were tangled after a collision. She earned her well deserved nick name after this battle. After over 2 hours of 25 yards or less broadsides, complete dismasting of Guerriere and it's surrender and subsequent sinking, Constitution was more than capable of continuing it's tour without returning to port.

What set apart the heavy colonial frigate was below her LWL. She was fine at both ends (not Cod's headed), which made her as quick as the much larger first raters, she would have to out run and considerably faster then the similarly classed vessels she'd do battle with. This advantage, plus unique construction made these heavy colonial frigates prized by all the world's navies of the era and out classed all of their rate.

When it comes to the "rate" of these heavy colonial frigates, it's difficult, as they weighed as much as a second rate, had the crew of a third rater, could out run a second and hold it own against a first rate and the armaments a high 3rd or low 4th rate.

This thread is getting old (4 months) and the original poster hasn't returned. I'll stick with my contentions in my first post on this thread (#5), in that no model making will help design even a fifth rater and considerable expertise is necessary, just like it was in Humphrey's day.

[George S]

What I was suggesting, very poorly, was that Druidking should try and design a small pond sailboat, square rigged etc. He would have to decide on lengtth, beam, draft, freeboard etc, estimate weights and center of gravity and center of buoyancy, heeling moment, righting moments etc etc. The plans in the books would only be guides for the above water appearance of the boat and he would have to avoid being mislead about the tremendous decline in stability of a scale model. But you are correct, he seems to have lost interest in this thread so we seem to be wasting our time here.