can some one show me how to design tall ship, something from like a 1700's navy fleet

[terhohalme]

Ask (google) Fredrik af Chapman

[PAR]

His "Treatise on Shipbuilding" was a notable piece of work for it's day, but what does that have to do with attempting to design a late 18th century war ship? Granted Chapman's work could be an interesting read for hobby naval historians like me, but it's way too in depth for the novice.

No offense intended you, George. I'm in a unique position to know quite a lot more then the average person about these frigates.

[George S]

Par: I am wrestling with the idea of a "look alike" historic ship (brig really). The ships of Steel, Chapman & Hutchinson Ltd. of Palo Alto look great but are too heavy for my old back. So I am looking for scale plans of "old ships" to build a semi-scale replica about 4 feet long on the water line But I want the ready to sail weight to be under 30 lbs. SC&H have elected to use long low profile lead keels with some inside ballast too. You can see the weights on their website <modelsailingships> I am wrestling with the math of using deep fin keels with the lead concentrated in a bulb.
Actually, the current build is a modified Mayflower with a lwl of 36 inches.
I plan to increase draft by 1 1/2 inches and then test fins of various depths with various weights of bulb. Not very scientific, but my math analysis is not that good.
I hope to finish the model by spring and then sail it with the grandchildren.

[PAR]

I have a scale model of USS Constitution, about 30" LWL, floating in a display tank in my living room. It took about 9 pounds of fishing weights to bring her down to her lines. It's surprisingly stable, considering her top hamper, but the ballast/displacement ratio is probably 500:1 in my light weight plastic model. The weights are inside, arranged on the centerline.

The other half wondered out loud about my maturity as a person, as I played with my boat in the bath tub, trying to get her to balance, fore and aft and side to side. She expected I'd have out grown the need to play with toy boats in the bath tub at my age (I was in my late 40's at the time), but I assured her I hadn't and to leave me play with my boat, thank you very much.

As far as sailing this model, it likely could carry it's lower courses in light air, but not it's royals or topgallant's, without risk of capsize. Actually it's mains and tops would over press her in all but a very light wind. Under mains only, she'd be okay. With a fin and moving the ballast a few inches below the hull she could carry her "fighting sails", but you'd need even more depth for a "full press", including stuntsails.

Model building has it's unique requirements, as you know. It's usually best to have a "above the LWL" model, with a functional under belly, for reasonable sailing performance.

[jehardiman]

Originally Posted by druidking

please guide me through the steps of designing a tall ship
i love tall ships and i want to be able to design them in my free time
but i dont know where to start
i want a picture and all the stats(length, beam, etc.) with everything in between

For late 18th century naval vessels get a copy of The History of the American Sailing Navy by Howard Chapelle. Lines plans, sparing and sail plans, frame and space, guns and carrages, boats...it has it all in one place. As well as the "who's better" arguments that showed up above.

For merchant ships, I'm not sure of a good book for the late 18th century, but The China Tea Clippers is a very good book for a slightly later period (c1840-1860).

Edit:

BTW, for what it is worth, Chapman is about the only author on "ship design", as opposed to "ship operation" throughout this period. Most Naval Architecture was (and to a certian extent still is) a guild system with apprentices learning from masters and everybody learning from (after the fact) obvious failures. Because soo much money is tied up in the construction of a ship, it was very difficult to get someone to buy a ship that was significantly apart for other, successful, ships. Development proceeded very slowly during the 16th-18th centuries and it wasn't until the mid 19th century that the "scientific" development of the art began and you see an explosion of texts on the subject.

[George S]

Thanks, I thought that there might be a "secret " formula. I will just keep stumbling along.
I nearly bought a similar model of the Constitution for our local grandchild (12 years old) but all he is only interested in computer war games.
Ships and Science ... ISBN 10-0-262-06259-3 by L. D. Ferreiro might interest you (but it is long and over my head a lot of the time.) George