Cabin design

[ddrdan]

Is there a reference typical to "The Architectural Graphics Standards" manual for equipment dimensions used in ship cabins, galleys, heads, etc..? And any reference books on cabin layout and design? The people on here have been a big help. Thanks in advance for your help again.

I'm using this as a fisherman's hotel. I have a flats boat I'll tow. I'd like to use every available inch efficiently. I'm working with a 7'x8' area so I don't have much to work with. The head has to be 3' x 2'-4".

I'll use a portable galley on the foredeck. Inside will need 2 single racks, helm, head, maybe a small table near the racks. In-line hot water heater in the head. Limited hull space for storage.

Any ideas or references are greatly appreciated.

[PAR]

"Architectural Graphics Standards" would be a good staring point, but most of these dimensions would be reduced a fair degree in tight quarters aboard. Are you unable to make things work with "Architectural Graphics Standards" dimensions?

[alan white]

A space like yours should be mocked up. A small rectangle would be easy made from cardboard. Use anything on hand. See how much width works for a doorway, how wide a berth can be, how low a galley counter, and so forth.
Any small space is always going to be on the small side of normal, meaning no standards apply once the space becomes that crowded.

[ddrdan]

Originally Posted by PAR

"Architectural Graphics Standards" would be a good staring point, but most of these dimensions would be reduced a fair degree in tight quarters aboard. Are you unable to make things work with "Architectural Graphics Standards" dimensions?

My Graphics Standard is old. It's a actual book, not digital. It doesn't have any info on marine equipment. Do the newer issues have it?

Thanks

[yipster]

if i understand correctly you want to check the ergonomy of the drawing?
you may cut some of these drawings to scale and try them for fit

[ddrdan]

Originally Posted by alan white

A space like yours should be mocked up. A small rectangle would be easy made from cardboard. Use anything on hand. See how much width works for a doorway, how wide a berth can be, how low a galley counter, and so forth.
Any small space is always going to be on the small side of normal, meaning no standards apply once the space becomes that crowded.

I'm using AutoCad in 3D so I can view it from all angles.

It is definitely a small area to work with. Mainly it has to provide the 3 things a fisherman needs at the end of a day on the water. A shower, a cold one, and a decent meal.

Thanks

[FAST FRED]

Skeens, "Elements of yacht design" has the rules for clearance at stoves etc , as well as variable sizes for folks.

FF

[yipster]

Originally Posted by ddrdan

I'm using AutoCad in 3D so I can view it from all angles

than have some male models.dxf to fit in

[dskira]

Originally Posted by yipster

if i understand correctly you want to check the ergonomy of the drawing?
you may cut some of these drawings to scale and try them for fit

They should use it on airplanes. They forget peoples has legs
Daniel

[PAR]

"Architectural Graphics Standards" is still a book Daniel, as far as I know. Mine is also a bit dated, though the data is still valid. No the ergonomics section is for general house hold or commercial sizing. Marine ergonomics are usually smaller, working with minimums rather then averages. I have some that I've developed over the years, as I would suspect any designer that has tried to fit 2 tons of accommodations into a 1 ton boat.

Are there some specific dimensions that you like to know the comfortable minimums of Ddrdan? For example, I think 18" square is about as small a hatch as I'd like to try to climb through. A low counter top height is 32" with a comfortable one being between 34" and 36" depending on person height, while 42" would be a bar height. 16" to 18" for seat height off the floor, the higher you go the smaller the seat from front to back it can be, the lower the wider it must be. 33" would be a minimum over a seat for sitting headroom, though 36" is generally more comfortable.

I'm a mock up maker for something like this, as Alan has suggested. It gives you a 3 dimensional feel for where and how things will arrange. It also provides an opportunity to make templates if you're fairly accurate. Cardboard or door skin material work well for these mock ups and you'll quickly see what works and what doesn't.

[marshmat]

There are a few ABS publications that might be worth looking at:
http://www.eagle.org/eagleExternalPo..._download_page
Check out #86 (application of ergonomics to marine systems), and #106 and #163 (crew habitability). The latter includes a long worksheet with minimum and recommended dimensions for cabins, berths, storage, head compartments, etc. They're more ship/workboat oriented but are useful references for layouts, controls, comfortable dimensions, etc.
I agree completely that mocking it up in cardboard and scrap lumber is by far the best way to figure out how to do a layout when space is tight.

[Wavewacker]

I didn't see where the entry had to be ojn the 7X8 space, it makes a difference which side or end you must enter. What is the height of the cabin, do you have room for bunks? While it is a hassel, a bed can easily flip up and be held in place with a simple galley stowed below it. Two seats and a table can also convert to a bunk on the bottom with a bunk above that might fold out as well.

The mock up is a great idea. To get some canper floor plans, look on line at small travel trailers and see how they are set up. Balancing the weight might be critical, how is it to be finished out. Aluminum tubbing and webbing for the rack or is this a wood project?

You mentioned inline hot water and in 4' I guess you have a shower, is this a curtain to the sole or solid walls. Can the pottie slide outside the shower area when it's not used and being recessed under the end of a bunk where the foot of a bunk is attached to the wall of the head? Or, maybe the pottie could slide under the helm seat through an opening when you needed the shower.

IMHO, you'll need to find double uses for the same space and convert space as needed, which should give the feeling of having more room when any one conversion is used.

[ddrdan]

Thanks to everyone for the info.

I'll start a mock up today. I'll use the Cad to plot a scale model.

PAR, I wasn't sure if the ergonomics weren't different on ships. The numbers you posted will help. thanks. I was also hoping to find items like door and window details. Mainly the window sill and threshold at doors. I know I'll need a vertical door threshold to stop water from entering the cabin. I thought that design would be established somewhere. I'm going to purchase the "Elements of yacht design" as Fast Fred suggested.

marshmat, That link is a great resource! thanks

One last question,
Are the curved fore and aft length extensions I designed into the port and starboard cabin walls going to give me any 'sizable' wind problems? I just hate the "box on a pontoon" design, and I wanted a little character in the exterior aesthetics.

[PAR]

The curved potions of the profiles will be the least of your concerns. Visually it does effectively break up the Winnebago on pontoons look, but it's still a big 'ol box on floats, which will suffer from windage issues. There's only so much you can do within the dimensions you've chosen.

[wardd]

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