Building Flareline 18, would like to extend by 2 frames...

[BertKu]

At last I received my boat building plans from New Zealand and I am pleased that I can get started. However I have problems and love to get some opinions on what would be the best. I cannot build the boat in the garage, as I need to store the material there and also to do the cutting etc. under cover.

I am therefore forced to build the boat in front of the house in the open. Although I will order a special made boat cover, which protect the wood works , should it start raining. Normally once per week.

The boatplans itself are the Flareline 18, which I like to extend by 1 frame, i.e. instead of 7 frames, 8 frames.

Preferable as Fanie clearly suggested that the baot should be longer than the 5 meter, I love to extend it to 9 frames. I personnaly do not think we have a problem, but only the designer can wack me over the head, incase it is not advisable.

I like to apologise to Rick and to Fanie. I have thought about your both offers, but I have a plan which I can modify, different canopy with solarpanels, a little longer etc. While both of your offers are still in the early design stage. Should I ever stop, I am easier able to sell the hull, from a well know New Zealand Naval architect. You are totally right Rick, it is the wrong design for electric propulsion, but I gamble that in 5 - 10 years time we do have better batteries and possible also new type of motors, whereby I could reach speeds of up to 12 - 15 knots with new type of motors and batteries for a long period of time. Maybe I could even plane, if I have a 50 kw motor and the hull bottom has the right thickness.

Attached I have a photo from a contraption I made, when I did build my double story house, to lift the 250 kg floor beams. Here I used it to repair my Jacuzzi I made and because of overheating, I had to lift the basin out. I can go to a width span of 6 meters.

Would it be usefull when building this boat? 5,33 meter long or 6,1 meter or 7 meter. This depends on the feed back from the NA.

I probably will have to take the grass out, level it, or even put bricks under the to be build boat.

Now is it your chance to hijack this thead. Any comments?

Bert

http://www.hartley-boats.com/flare18.html

[messabout]

Do not add frames to make th boat longer. If you wish to stretch the boat, simply increase the distance between the existing building moulds. Stretch/shrink operations should be approached with some degree of caution but you can usually get away with 10 to 15 percent variance. I think that you would be wise to consult the designer for the most appropriate advice.

[BertKu]

Originally Posted by messabout

Do not add frames to make the boat longer. If you wish to stretch the boat, simply increase the distance between the existing building moulds. Stretch/shrink operations should be approached with some degree of caution but you can usually get away with 10 to 15 percent variance. I think that you would be wise to consult the designer for the most appropriate advice.

I have written to NZ and hope to get a response. But for the low price of the boatplans (very good plans) , one cannot expect long correspondence between the NA and the boatbuilder. But I hope that he will give some advise. From some previous information, I thought that I read, that one could add a frame. I will search for that past information.
Thanks you for pointing this out.
Bert

[BertKu]

Originally Posted by messabout

Do not add frames to make th boat longer. If you wish to stretch the boat, simply increase the distance between the existing building moulds.

Messabout, I am actual puzzled. Is there a reason why a frame cannot be added?. In my view it makes the boat stronger then to increase the distance between the frames. Also in that case, I have to alter every cutout layouts, which is supplied with the boatplans. If my memory is still correct, I thought that with a longer waterline, the top speed of the boat can be higher and this will put extra force on the hull. By missing an extra frame, does one not weaken the hull? That is my logic, but I am not a NA.
Bert

[Asleep Helmsman]

Have you considered building a Quonset hut? They are cheap and fast to build.

[BertKu]

Originally Posted by Asleep Helmsman

Have you considered building a Quonset hut? They are cheap and fast to build.

Can I go onto the sea with it?,

[Asleep Helmsman]

Originally Posted by BertKu

Can I go onto the sea with it?,

I guess so, most likely under, but I would probably use it to cover my boat while I was building it.

Then I would be more inclined to "take that to sea", instead.

[BertKu]

Originally Posted by Asleep Helmsman

I guess so, most likely under, but I would probably use it to cover my boat while I was building it.

Then I would be more inclined to "take that to sea", instead.

Hi wide awake Helmsman, I did look at Google, and yes that is a very good idea, but I am living in the municipality area and their bylaws state: "No roof within 6 meters of boundry" and that kills this excellent proposal to build the boat in such half round metal casing. It does remind me when my father was in the concentration camp during W2, I was still in babypowders at that time. Thanks Helmsman. I will consult the municipality and see whether they will issue a temperary licence for let say 8 months. It depends also whether neighbours will complain. But, yes good idea.

[Asleep Helmsman]

No worries,
A very cheep temporary one can be built from a tarp and some bent ribs.

I'll post a little drawing after lunch. It may be that you could get permission to do a temp one easier.

They probably would allow it in our back yard, but definitely not in the front.

[BertKu]

Originally Posted by Asleep Helmsman

No worries,
A very cheep temporary one can be built from a tarp and some bent ribs.

I'll post a little drawing after lunch. It may be that you could get permission to do a temp one easier.

They probably would allow it in our back yard, but definitely not in the front.

The municipality bylaw state: No permanently foundation. If I can make it in such a way that it cannot be regarded as permanent, I can build it, even in the front. Only when 3 out of the 4 neighbours complain, I have to dismantel it. Lucky for me, my one neighbour is a holiday home and he is only 2 weeks per year in his home.

[BertKu]

Thank you moderator for changing my header. Much more appropiate.

Actually boat design readers, I like to extend it by 2 Frames to make the boat from 5,33 to 7 meters. You have to see it from my point of view.

1) I don't have a heavy engine nor 300 kg of fuel.
2) The speed will be not a planing speed.
3) I probably do not get an answer on my question to the NA, which is very understandable, thus I am on my own
4) I will have in anyway to make a larger canopy over the boat to mount the solar panels onto.
5) I will have two 14 kg electric motors and screws and not 400Kg weight engine
6) I will have heavy batteries, which I can shift to the right position to balance the boat.

Thus my logic tells me that I could extend the boat by 2 frames and strengthen the bottom of the Hull. The plans stated :
for engines:
up to 40 Hp >>>>>> 5/16" plywwood
up to 80 hp >>>>>> 3/8" plywood
up to 100 hp 2 skins of 1/4" ply

Thus, if I use 3/8" plywood, I would be safe. The boat plan I will have to regard as a guidance. Yes, I am not a NA, but with some logic, we should be able together to come to a final conclusion.

Bert

[BertKu]

Hereby attached the enlargementof the aft part of the hull. For copy right reason, I cannot disclose more details, but it should be enough to discuss this on the net and advise me.

[tom28571]

It will be very difficult to reach your desired destination if you insist on taking the wrong road

[BertKu]

Originally Posted by tom28571

It will be very difficult to reach your desired destination if you insist on taking the wrong road

Hi Tom,

The only one who really gives me reasons why something is not 100% is Rick and Fanie. It does not help to say I am on the wrong road. Give me a reason why I am on the wrong road. I am then able to judge whether you are correct and I have to change direction.

Fanie stated, the boat is too short, thus I make it longer. Rick stated, the boat has the wrong hull and I must lift the aft a little higher. he is right and thus I change the transom.

You see that jacuzzi I build. I said, I will build it with propain gas and electrical. Everybody told me I am nuts, today I have a jacuzzi which takes me only 1 hour to heat up from 18 degrees to 37 degrees. If I had done this electrical only, I would have to keep it constant heated up at great cost. Now if there is an electrical black out, I just have the CD pump circulating through the Bosch Gas Geyser. Now other people are copying me. 20 years ago I made a wireless electronic timer for the showjumping industry, today they all have copied the principles . Everybody told me also, it want work.

Tell me the reason of the wrong road and then I will make corrections or I feel you may have no real good reasons.

[tom28571]

Originally Posted by BertKu

Hi Tom,
Tell me the reason of the wrong road and then I will make corrections or I feel you may have no real good reasons.

I meant no disrespect Bert. It was intended as a gentle reminder that all who want to design their own boat need to become familiar with the basics of boat design and how they interact with the medium in which they operate. As Mr. Miagi said "wax on, wax off".

The wrong road I refer to is that you start with a boat designed for a quite different mode of operation than you want and change it to suit your purpose. My advice is to read some basic books on boat design. Dave Gerr's "Nature of boats" is a good one and Ted Brewer's small book on boat design also. Both will describe how to get on the right road. There are many other equally good books.

One good suggestion that you blew away is that adding frames is not the best way to lengthen a design but that increasing the spacing of existing frames or stations is the normal and better method. This suggests a lack of basic understanding that can only come through personal study, not by being fed tidbits from this or any other forum.

Good luck with your project and do join in with the work that all here hold in high regard.