Bollard/scupper design

[BrettM]

Hi All,

Looking for information on possible options for a combined scupper/cleat arrangement for a 84ft luxury yacht (sail) under construction. Multiple scuppers but only some with mooring cleats.

I am hoping for something "off the shelf". Failing that they will be custom made in polished stainless.

Design wise, sure I can come up with my own safety factors and loadings but does anybody know of any design standards that exist? This is a surveyed yacht and while no standard is specified some backup to my thinking will be helpful.

Thanks
Brett

[gonzo]

Do they need to be closed on top?

[BrettM]

Gonzo,
Yes they do need to be closed as the fittings will be inserted into a bulwark.
brett

[SailDesign]

Brett, I don't _know_ of any standards, but ABS or ABYC would have some f there were any. In Oz - dunno.
Bitts should be capable of taking full bollard thrust, maybe plus a little safety factor. Yuo want the rope to break, not the boat...

[BrettM]

Thanks steve, Will check Abs/abyc. Nothing in Oz. Loadings you describge are along my lines of thinking but I want whaterver is tied to the other end of the rope to break first, then the rope, then my bollard......

Brett

[SailDesign]

Brett, if you're tying that thing to any reasonable kind of dock - buy REALLY strong rope... ;-)

[SailDesign]

Actually, don't buy strong rope. The rope SHOULD break first, as it is the easiest to replace. (Not necessarily cheapest, just easiest). It's like having the halyards fail before the sail - you can re-reave the halyard more easily than you can repair the sail.

[BrettM]

If we continue down this path I am going to end up with a 84ft bollard that floats...

[Tom Lathrop]

Looks like a hefty fitting but the fasteners look puny. How do you plan to anchor the hawsepipe to take the large loads that will be on it? How do you protect your hands in handling line big enough for that size boat? It does not look safe for the crew. The opening must be much larger than you show.

I understand the desire to eliminate exposed cleats on deck, but placing cleats inside hawsepipes (unless they are really large) looks awkward. Maybe you could use a regular hawsepipe and run the mooring line to a cleat or samson post under a shelf inside the bulwark where it can be reached without sticking your hands inside the pipe where they can get mangled.

Of course you can just use an eye splice over the cleat but that leaves you at the mercy of whoever is on the dock and all adjustments must be made from the dock.

[BrettM]

Tom,

I appreciate your comments, the idea is really a concept only (took about 30min) so there is plenty of time to change when I do some actual numbers.

As far as attachment is concerned, primary attachement is the two large bolts indicated (may be large studs hence invisible) which go through a large section of timber in the sheer. The four smaller ones are primarly to hold the hawse in place rather than take the primary loads. In reality, this is a conservative yacht with heaps of equipment and as such not much is on the light side.

As far as ease of use is concerned, I will probably increase the depth of the hawse a little at some point, but not as much as I would like. Having the cleat fit on the inside of the bulwark is not really an option as we have flush clean surfaces inside and a passenger walkway beside (for the spring anyway). It is also intended that the opening is identical to a series of scuppers that are fitted.

Brett

[MDV]

Brett,

The only standards I know of are the Japanese Standards (JIS), for which JIS F2017 is for Panama Chocks and JIS F2014 is for Roller Fairleads & JIS F2017 is for Bulwark Mounted Panama Chock. I don't know the contents of the standards, but this is one of the more common standards for ships in Asia.

You can probably find more or purchace the standards at

http://www.jsa.or.jp/default_english.asp

Regards,

Michael

[cgorton]

Brett,
Try these guys. They probably have a custom design that you could reuse.
http://www.steelheadmarine.net/
Craig

[gonzo]

I have seen a combination hawsepipe cleat that worked OK. The cleat is on the inside and under the hawsepipe. The bulkwark has a recess built in the ceiling to reach the cleat. However, this only works in a pretty high bulkwark.

[BrettM]

Thanks all for your help, am chasing it all up now. Michael, Haven't heard from you lately, What happening in singapore? Maybe pm me.

Brett

[Willallison]

The bollards on our Offshore 48 are a variation on what you have modelled. (Remotely like that shown in my scribble below ) The biggest problem we face - and could possible be worse with your design is that it is very difficult to put more than 1 line through the hold and onto the cleat. Plus you are poking fingers and hands into the hole where lines may be coming up tight....not the safest place....