Boat plans

[kudu]

I have a question for all you professional designers out there...I had purchased a set of plans from a well known naval architect, turns out I wasn't happy with the bow, pilothouse, interior ect. I paid another architect to correct the bow which led to having the lines corrected from there all the way to the stern, because of other faulty issues aft. The interior will be in no way similar to the original plans, as well as the pilothouse design. It was also changed from a ketch to a cutter per my request, as well as other items...The question is... At what point is a design no longer the property of the original designer, based on the changes made?

[SailDesign]

This is a trick question, right? ;-0
It is a difficult call, but it sounds as though by the time you have finished, even it's original designer wouldn't recognise it. Different hull, house, interior and rig.
I'd say the original designer would be very unhappy to call it his own. From the point of view of liability, it is certainly not his anymore, so I wouldn't worry about him claiming it.

Steve

[emubo]

So, is it a design from the the original designer, from the second architect or even your own design - because you did know how it should look like?

Only very few parts of a design are really thoughts of the designer himself, the rest is based on existing designs and experience made by others.

I would call this "inspired by", a term widely used by naval architects to avoid "stolen".
Seriously: if you don't copy very distinctiv features of a boat, I would say it is a new, or even your own, design.

[kudu]

So, is it safe to say that I could sell copies of the new design if chose to? What about if down the road I wanted to sell the boat, how would my investment be impacted? Do "one-off" designs hold their market value as well as the rest? In other words, are there any drawbacks? I had asked the original designer to make the changes, he refused at first then came back with a response, "let my design team make the changes". One problem though, he wanted to charge 2.5 times the cost of what it actually amounted to by the second architect. I asked this same question, "who's design is it"? to the second designer, his answer was, "good question". Bottom line is, I don't want to be sued. All of the ideas that were created came from me, the technical stuff of course came from the second designer. It was a team effort to create a stout sailing vessel, the original set of plans were questionable, and I'm thankful that I did not build as proposed in the plans.

[kudu]

Are there any architects with a background in law that could respond to my question? Thanks

[emubo]

-
talking about law:
First of all, a design can only be protected if it is new. If it is really new the design can be protected by "appearence": that means if you change the proportions a little bit, it is a new design.
Or it can be protected by patent (hard to get), this must be a new building method or something like that.
But: law does NOT include private use. You can built in fact what you want, as long as you are not selling plans/boats professionaly. If you want to sell the one-off, you have to wait 5 years (in europe) - otherwise it would be considered as built to sell.

you could do some research, if you find similar boats desinged before that one you bought, you can do what you want - because the design is then not new and not protected by law.

take a look at the "beneteau first 21" and then at the "etap 21i" - the changes are extremely small, but it was legaly a new design.

- emubo

[kudu]

Based on your response it would appear that I have nothing to worry about. However, here in the United States the law may vary somewhat. At some point I may want to sell copies of the design and do not want to infringe on anyones prior rights. Are there any lawyers with background in maritime law available here that could nail this down? Wanting a definitive answer regarding this subject pertaining to the statutes here in the United States. Thanks

[duluthboats]

Kudu,
Your first boat and already you need to hire a patent lawyer and a tax accountant.

Gary

[kudu]

I think I hear a violin playing in the background...Do have a kleenex I could borrow ?

Kudu, you could ask each designer involved for a "quit claim" deed, in which they each surrender to you whatever claim they might have. This concept does not require that anyone establish having an actual, valid claim. They might want a fee for this. The larger the fee they request, the greater the warning sign that you might get trouble later without it.

Tim Dunn

I worked with the late famous Westy Farmer.
Regarding this subject, Westy always said, "If they are not my lines, it's not my boat. Period." What he was referring to, is that if someone takes his lines and modifies them in any way, it affects the entire model. He wouldn't be responsible for the outcome. Several "kids" tried copying his ideas but because they didn't understand the fundementals of solid design and engineering principals, they never were very good boats. That's why they tried copying them in the first place.
My advice is based on what Westy taught me: design your own boat based on sound principals and what has successfully worked in the past and don't worry about the attorneys.